3+1 EEb in Orchestra?

[eupho]

I am curious as to player's experiences with British style EEbtubas in orchestra in the U.S. Have you used one? What do conductors say? I heard about one conductor who called it a "band tuba" and instructed the tubist to not bring it ever again. How did the trombone section respond? Do the British have the right idea?

[MTFULRUTUBA]

Can't speak from personal experience, BUT, I was lucky enough to hear Chris McShane on an e-flat 3/1 with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra performing Mahler Symphony 5 and he sounded terrific! There is a case to be made for any key tuba in my opinion if played well by the performer

[tclements]

I LOVE the Eb tuba! MY problem is that they POINT the wrong way. Trombonists (and some brass section mates) are NOT used to having the tuba bell aimed their direction. As an experiment, I played a "top action" Eb tuba and several of my brass section mates mentioned to me that they though I could tone it down. I was NOT playing particularly loudly and was actually UNDER playing most of the the night. The very next rehearsal, I brought my "front action" tuba and actually cranked the volume a notch. At break, I asked several of my colleagues, "Was the volume better tonight?" A unanimous "yes" was the answer. Go figure.

[Jay Bertolet]

Years ago I used a Boosey Sovereign 3+1 Eb with the orchestra I played with and, despite the wonderful sound it made, I didn't like it much at all. For me, the coordination dealing with faster passages using my left hand sucked. I had issues with the compensating system, for me it still yielded some pretty rough intonation without the option to practically pull slides, and (like Tony said) the bell is facing in the wrong direction and I had angry trombone players because of it. I traded that horn for a Willson front action Eb and all the problems were solved. I don't think the issue with the 3+1 Eb tubas is at all the way they sound. It's all the other logistical stuff that becomes an issue. Plenty of English tuba players make these horns work exceptionally well, but for me it was simply easier to go to a front action instrument. Worked like a charm.

[kathott]

Hello. I have used the Besson EEb for orchestral playing for over thirty years. I made the decision to acquire one after my first trip to Britain and heard the London players absolutely blow the roof off with this single instrument. The direction of the bell has not been an issue, and is sometimes an advantage musically, depending on the repertoire. I am glad to see more Americans exploring the Eb, and more Brits using the CC. This however, returns us to the topic of a general "world sameness" of sound. Perhaps LP recordings were the original culprits.....My personal usage of instruments is approx. CC-45%, EEb-35%, F-15%, BBb-5%.

[Three Valves]

If I were inclined to drive a small car on the wrong side of the road,

I'd probably dig a small tuba with the forth valve in the wrong place!!

[ghmerrill]

Two quick reactions to this:

First, having played a Yamaha 321S, a Cerveny BBb, a Buescher 3-valve Eb, and (my primary horn) 3+1 EEb, I'm pretty sure that when I play the (E)Eb horns, they don't lean as much one way or the other compared to the BBb horn I was playing. So it's not like you are actually pointing the bell at the trombone players. It's mostly vertical.

Second, the trombone players need to get over themselves.

[PMeuph]

I wonder why besson never made a 982.5. (Put a front action 4 compensating valveset on a 19inch bell) They have all the parts and it seems like it might be more popular in some circles.

As for the OP, my former prof used the 3+1 for half a season when he ripped a tendon in his ring finger. His ring and pinkie fingers were taped together so he couldn't play any 4-valve in one hand tubas. I remember Mahler 1 being quite lovely on the EEb. I don't think the orchestra did anything too big for the time he had his finger brace..

[ken k]

Two quick reactions to this:

First, having played a Yamaha 321S, a Cerveny BBb, a Buescher 3-valve Eb, and (my primary horn) 3+1 EEb, I'm pretty sure that when I play the (E)Eb horns, they don't lean as much one way or the other compared to the BBb horn I was playing. So it's not like you are actually pointing the bell at the trombone players. It's mostly vertical.

Second, the trombone players need to get over themselves.

+!!!

ken k

[Antontuba]

I play my 981 in an orchestra, everyone is happy with the tone quality the horn has, and how it blends with the rest of the brass section. Any issues with the tuba have not been horn related
I certainly don't have trouble getting enough sound, switched to EEb about four years ago, glad I made the change.

Our trombonists are really cool to perform with.

See you Saturday

Adam
Antontuba

[imperialbari]

In my book a good tuba player could improve time and intonation of any brass section, if all players could hear his sound directly from the bell.

And 3+1P Eb tubas aren’t all the same. The Besson 982 is a band model. The Besson 981 has a much wider sound with a less pronounced chiff.

Klaus,
who hears from the bottom and up as inner and top parts basically just are reinforcements of the bass line’s overtones.

[PMeuph]

An EEb is a "bass horn", an "Eb" is a very small "bass horn", and an F is a "tuba".

...I have it straight...yes...??

No, silly Bloke, it's "chewba."

[peter birch]

OK I'm a Brit, but my view is this, I play in a brass band, a brass quintet, an orchestra and a wind band, all with a 3+1 Eb tuba, each situation requires a different approach to playing (articulation, dynamics, intonation etc and especially sensitivity.) and that all takes place in the mind rather than in the instrument I'm holding. Im sure that other people do the same with a Bb , C or F tuba, all with no problems

[pjv]

1. It does the job then it's the proper tool.
2. The uprights can be easily played with the bell straight up.
3. There are many formidable front-valve tubas available, with or without compensating valves.
4. If properly made the compensating system works as well as anything out there, maybe better.
5. The bass trombone bell often next to the tuba and quite deafening. (Ever try telling a bass trombonist to play softer?)

I'm not an Eb player and I don't own one. I have recently been practicing on a friends Eb just to find out what I've been missing. I play BBb, CC and F so I feel I should have done this a long time ago. I'm very impressed with the results. Nimble and still big and fat when needed. Who knows, I might even look for one in the not so distant future.

Once we get out of this recession....

[Alex C]

I loved my 981 E-flat, but the bell direction, already mentioned by several people, caused a number of problems. One church choir director said my tuba sound ruined their recording because all you could hear was tuba, the bell was pointing right at the mic. He was nice about it but made it clear that he didn't want that to happen again.

I resisted using the 981 in orchestra because of this until I played the Brahms Requiem. Again, after the performance, the conductor immediately came backstage and told me "do not bring that horn into my orchestra again." OK..... I played the Holton on everything for the next year and a half before I quit.

The so-called Pat Sheriden model would be an excellent orchestral tuba in the US because of it's configuration. It is virtually a 98X with a left pointing bell. Unfortunately I left the Eb tuba and went back to F. Too old to switch fingerings one more time.

[ghmerrill]

One church choir director said my tuba sound ruined their recording because all you could hear was tuba, the bell was pointing right at the mic. He was nice about it but made it clear that he didn't want that to happen again.
I

Uh ... re-position the mic?

I mean, the Brits seem to have been handling this without difficulty in both live performances and recordings for a VERY long time. The conceptual and practical issues here don't seem insurmountable -- even for a choir director.

[kathott]

If a conductor finds fault with your choice of instrument, he/she are just being diplomatic. It is simply poor playing at the root of the matter.

[windshieldbug]

If a conductor finds fault with your choice of instrument, he/she are just being diplomatic. It is simply poor playing at the root of the matter.

Uninformed. Arrogant. Inexperienced. Wow.

That's just mean!

[kathott]

bump

[tclements]

All the years I have been playing, I have never had a conductor say, "Please play that on a <blah blah> tuba." I can't IMAGINE under what circumstances that would happen.