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I understand that a Miraphone 188 is considered a "4/4+" type horn whereas most descriptions of an Alexander 163 is that it is a classic 5/4 sized tuba. Does anyone have a picture comparison of these two instruments standing next to each other?

I've played both side-by-side, but no photo. They are really close in terms of height and bell diameter, but the 188 is more tightly wrapped and has less bell taper. The bore, tubing, and bell taper of the 163 are all bigger. The 163 definitely has a bigger sound, but both tubas are pretty sweet.

I believe that my 163CC is right at 40 inches tall. I think Glen allows for an extra inch or so of length on his bag dimensions. For reference, the Cronkhite bag for my 163 (very nice bags by the way) is the same one that is specified for the Miraphone 186.

Interestingly enough, my Alex 163, which I bought new from the Horn Guys in 2011, does not have the normal 17.7" bell diameter (I always assumed it did), but I recently measured it at 16.5" and it is entirely made of (gold) sheet brass - the seams extend all the way to the end of the bell flare. I've read elsewhere on these boards that Alexander stopped making their bell flares in this old school fashion a number of years ago. Maybe I got a special one.

The other tuba player in my band plays a classic 186CC (with a 16.5" bell) and the bell flare profiles are surprisingly similar. In recordings the tuba sounds blend together very well. In my own experience I've directly compared the 163 to an older 4V 186 and to a new 5V 186 (I also compared to two different 188's when buying the Alex). The Miraphones have a more compact and shorter body section, but a taller bell section (more of a "stovepipe"). My recollection is that the 188 is a bit broader in the body and bell flare, so that it does feel a bit bigger than a 186. The 163 with its longer body and higher leadpipe position makes the horn "feel" a bit bigger than the Miraphones although it is probably a little lighter in weight.

Soundwise, the 186 defines the classic German rotary sound; the 188 takes the same concept but makes it a bit bigger and darker but with a bottom end that takes more work to crank out the lowest notes (the 186 will hit a limit when you try to get too loud and low). I find that the 163 goes beyond the 188 in terms of sound produced - there is definitely more "impact" or force to the sound that makes it seem like a much larger instrument. I also find that the Alex will respond to different mouthpieces in unique ways - and not always what you would expect.

I understand that pictures will explain very little for sound, bloke I was just trying to get an idea as to what made one a 4/4+ vs. 5/4 from a physical standpoint.

I'm kinda toying with the idea of going to an Alex from my Mirafone but I don't know if the expense would be justified. A Tuono would be fantastic but that's nowhere near fiscally reasonable for me (unless someone wants to do a straight trade for my 188.)

Thanks Joe for the super kind words!!!!!!!

Billy M. wrote:I understand that pictures will explain very little for sound, bloke I was just trying to get an idea as to what made one a 4/4+ vs. 5/4 from a physical standpoint.

I'm kinda toying with the idea of going to an Alex from my Mirafone but I don't know if the expense would be justified. A Tuono would be fantastic but that's nowhere near fiscally reasonable for me (unless someone wants to do a straight trade for my 188.)

Hey Billy -- I found myself in this same situation almost exactly 1 year ago. I ended up with a Rudy Meinl 4/4, although if an Alex 163 would have been available I may have gone for that as well.

Overall, it was a good move. The 188 was fantastic, and don't get me wrong, I can't complain about it. But even very good things can be improved upon in certain ways. It's all a matter of balance and which characteristics are most important to you. I've traded some of the point-and-shoot capabilities for a sound (and mass of sound) that is better suited to me than the 188.

PM me if you have any questions or want to chat about this more -- I've been exactly where you are!