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A question for tuba-euphonium 'studio' proprietors:

Do you provide prospective students with an honest assessment of the tuba-euphonium employment market?

If so, what exactly do you tell them?

If not, why not?

Something must be done to assure Tuba equity in the United States of America!!

Yep

bloke wrote: On a related topic...
I don't know how many here are aware of this (or care), but there are some "full time" symphony orchestra musicians who routinely go on unemployment between their 20-something to 30-something weeks of annual services.

bloke "yeah...I suppose Mrs. bloke and I could, theoretically and - likely - legally, take turns laying each other off, but then symphony orchestra musicians (including those who only work 2X - 3X weeks/yr.) would have to pay for that. "

Hi-
I am sure any non 52 week symphonic musician who qualifies for unemployment would greatly trade their unemployment insurance money-which they do pay into-for 52 weeks worth of work--just like what their orchestral management counterparts get........
Mark

bloke wrote:I don't know how many here are aware of this (or care), but there are some "full time" symphony orchestra musicians who routinely go on unemployment between their 20-something to 30-something weeks of annual services.

I don't really know the inner workings of orchestra contracts, but if they pay normal person taxes, they probably pay into unemployment too. I suppose they could go work at a coffee shop or something for 20 weeks, but that would be pretty lame. If I saw my kids' math teacher working the checkout line in Target over the summer I'd feel the same way. Maybe that's how the world is, but that isn't how it should be.

Watchman wrote: I don't really know the inner workings of orchestra contracts, but if they pay normal person taxes, they probably pay into unemployment too. I suppose they could go work at a coffee shop or something for 20 weeks, but that would be pretty lame. If I saw my kids' math teacher working the checkout line in Target over the summer I'd feel the same way. Maybe that's how the world is, but that isn't how it should be.

When I was growing up, I remember my teachers doing things like cutting grass and pumping gas in the summers. Some also waited tables (but my family rarely ate at places that had actual waiters). Of course, some of the "cool" music teachers played wedding bands or other gigs. Back in that day, police and firemen would also do "side jobs" like painting houses or other work to supplement their modest income when not on duty. There is nothing wrong with honest work, too bad many people now think they are too good for it.
I would much rather see one of my kids' teachers checking out a line in Target instead of standing in an unemployment line.

most MLB, NFL, NBA, and NHL players had off-season jobs just to make a living, even into the 60s a lot of them did. I still remember Rusty Staub, grave digger.

As to the question of full disclosure to students: I tell them I will not encourage them to pursue a performance degree. I will help them be the best musician possible. I will do whatever I can do to help them. IF they feel they simply can't live without being a performance-major level player WITH THAT DEGREE, I'll still support them, because it takes that kind of dedication to have much of a chance at all. But I will still advise them to have something else in their bag of tricks.

Sure, there are exceptions. That takes an even more special type of person.

It's a scary world for any artist right now, no matter what genre, no matter what degree, no matter what age.

eupher61 wrote: It's a scary world for any artist right now, no matter what genre, no matter what degree, no matter what age.

Scary how??

They may have to bus a table??

bloke wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqzpQPDSr2s

HA!!

I like the reactions of Cesar Romero in The Thin Man or Cary Grant in Suspicion when they (Gigolos) are informed they need to get real jobs.

Priceless!!

It's not as if I always aspired to be them.

I can't help it if classy dames like Bad Boys!!

Like marrying a sponsor??

OK, maybe you liked buying your slacks from your teacher, but stuff like this is probably more likely to happen when a teacher is seen out in public doing a "normal" job these days. The kind of community you grew up with isn't how it is anymore. I mean, how many families have a "caretaker" parent? How many families have TWO parents for crying out loud? Whether you are an artist or not, the world is a scary place.

Quote

"My 7th grade geometry teacher (as - back in the late '60's - teachers embraced/faced the fact that they worked fewer than 190 days out of the year...barely more than half) worked in the Men's Clothing Dept. at the SEARS department store about five miles from our school from after dinner until close, and on weekends...probably enough hours to be "full-time" at SEARS. (Those were the pre-Walmart days, when there was a SEARS catalog in every home in America, and SEARS stores were very busy places.) Not only did we not view what he was doing as "stooping", but we thought it was cool that he was working there. Many of us bought some of our clothing there - just so we could buy them from him.

Regardless of how the teaching profession is viewed today, "teaching school" was viewed and designed as a job primarily for caretaker parents who could be home shortly after their own children arrived home...and home during summer vacation for the same reason...and (again) roughly a "half-year" job - with roughly half-year pay. Non-caretaker parents would typically aspire to band director/coaching jobs (which paid roughly another 4 - 6 weeks worth of wages) or administrative (principal/etc.) jobs...OR (as did my geography teacher) work another job to put with their teaching job."

Quote

"When I was growing up, I remember my teachers doing things like cutting grass and pumping gas in the summers. Some also waited tables (but my family rarely ate at places that had actual waiters). Of course, some of the "cool" music teachers played wedding bands or other gigs. Back in that day, police and firemen would also do "side jobs" like painting houses or other work to supplement their modest income when not on duty. There is nothing wrong with honest work, too bad many people now think they are too good for it.
I would much rather see one of my kids' teachers checking out a line in Target instead of standing in an unemployment line."

"Do not say, 'Why were the old days better than these?' for it is not wise to ask such questions."
Ecclesiastes 7:10

Beware baby boomer nostalgia.

I teach in public schools and believe in Adam Smith's Theory of Competitive Wages. I studied for years with people such as Brian Bowman, Frank Crisafulli, Arnold Jacobs, Vince Cichowicz, Gary Ofenloch, and Rex Martin. I had the privilege of playing next to Pat Sheridan in John Paynter's Wind Ensemble at Northwestern and also studying conducting and arranging with Mr. Paynter. I knew I had a lot to offer students and that I'd be in a decent position for getting a job as a public school band director.

Did I pick a district with higher pay or a district with lower pay? I didn't enter this field to get rich, but I didn't take a vow of poverty, either. Yes, I did other jobs on the side for years, sometimes thinking, "What a chump I am for teaching. I have abilities that can make me much more money." My own kids need my time and I refuse to be dependent on a day care institution or an electronic babysitter.

I encounter people who express envy, or even resentment, at my summer vacation. I tell them that we're always looking for good people and they should apply. They NEVER do. I guess the job is not such a great deal.

My sons' teachers are very sharp people who work long hours at their profession preparing materials, giving feedback and extra help for students, and communicating with parents. I want them to stay in this field and not leave for greener pastures (this happens a lot). I want my sons' teachers to be people who are there by choice, not people who have no other option. No system is perfect but, generally, you get what you pay for.

All parents are teachers, whether or not their kids go to school. As a teacher, I have to rely on parents to teach their children to be healthy, functional, and to have the right beliefs, character, and work ethic. My job as a parent is 50 times bigger than my job as a teacher. I would not be dogmatic about public school, private school, or home school. Parents should put their kids where things are happening the way they should. Even then, every situation has limitations.