Stuffy and out of tune Cerveny

[Rick Denney]

Does anyone else have experience with an ABB 693? I see that the current model is listed as CBB 693 and I am starting to wonder if there were some issues corrected along the way.

Cerveny is an old maker, and most of their stuff is a bit archaic, not helped by decades of Soviet central planning. Inconsistency from one horn to the next is poor at best, with intonation issues being the most common complaint.

But there are good and even excellent Cervenys, especially if you like their somewhat old-school Bohemian sound and approach.

They are definitely not like tubas that have been designed in Great Britain or America. Kings are a completely different beast. Kings have a much smaller bore and the good ones have a warmer tone and an easier response.

I have never played a 693, and though I don't recall the model number scheme they currently use, I don't think the ABB versus CBB is a generational designation. But I have owned a Cerveny and have played many other models.

Even with a good example, a big Cerveny is likely to blow very differently than a normal King, and consequently it will take considerable getting used to. If it's stuffy, check again for leaks. The best way I've found to check for leaks is to stuff an unopened roll of paper towel down the bell, and then blow. You will probably hear the hissing of a major leak. The Cerveny that I owned (20 years ago) had a gap in the solder joint of the second-valve branch, so I wouldn't discount the possibility at all. Have any obvious leak repaired, of course. Cover over suspected leaks with electrical tape and see if the horn blows differently. If it does, then have those repaired, too.

You should also consider taking it to a qualified technician to go over the instrument. He can also check for leaks, as well as replacing the water key corks, getting the gunk out of the instrument (which could also be part of the problem), and making sure the rotary valves are aligned properly.

Rick "who has played Cervenys with poor intonation but never one that was stuffy" Denney

[jmerring]

I had a vaguely similar problem on my Yamaha 641. I was told to try reversing the main tuning slide (left to right); which cleared up the horn's stuffiness. As to the other notes; I can't be of much help, there. I did find that a larger bore horn (like the Yamaha) required a bit more air volume, to help it's intonation. Not volume (as in loudness), but pushing more air from the diaphragm.

[OldBandsman]

Hi.. I'm another community band guy... struggling with a new Cerveny helicon. Tuning has been an adventure. You can put valves down but the pitch you have in your head is what you'll get. I'm gonna learn a lot from this horn.

Had lots of trouble with 4th valve and the C two lines below the bass staff. Not enough slide to pull out to bring it in tune. Then I discovered I could swap the long 1st valve slide into the 4th tubing. And the old 4th tubing was sufficently long in the 1st valve to use. I hadda put a little pressure on the brass to get the long one to fit, but this brass is so thin it bent without damage.

Tuning is getting more workable with every band rehearsal.

[funkcicle]

...especially if you like their somewhat old-school Bohemian sound and approach.

Just out of curiosity, could you expand a bit on what you mean by "somewhat old school bohemian sound and approach"? I'm not certain I understand it, but I REALLY like that description.

thanks!

[Rick Denney]

Just out of curiosity, could you expand a bit on what you mean by "somewhat old school bohemian sound and approach"? I'm not certain I understand it, but I REALLY like that description.

I meant that it has a classic rotary tuba sound, without any of the innovations of the last several decades, such as wider bell flares, that have been adopted into other rotary tubas. I woulda said "German" except that it's made in the Czech Republic in a location where that style of tuba originated. Bohemia seems to be the region in question, so it is therefore bohemian.

I disavow any more recent connotation of that word, heh, heh.

Rick "who thinks a Cerveny is quite at home in a beer tent" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

I meant that it has a classic rotary tuba sound, without any of the innovations of the last several decades, such as wider bell flares, that have been adopted into other rotary tubas. I woulda said "German" except that it's made in the Czech Republic in a location where that style of tuba originated. Bohemia seems to be the region in question, so it is therefore bohemian.

Rick "who thinks a Cerveny is quite at home in a beer tent" Denney

Actually, in that part of the Czech republic, there was once a very large German-speaking population involved in the manufacture of all sorts of musical instruments. After WWII, Czechoslovakia repatriated the area and expelled most of the German population.

So the characterization of sounding "German" isn't undeserved, seeing as how the AMATI conglomerate hasn't done much in the intervening years to the basic designs.

Chuck "does the word "Sudetenland" mean anything to you" (G)

[TubaRay]

Chuck "does the word "Sudetenland" mean anything to you" (G)

Actually, "Sudetenland" does mean something to me. One can also check this brief description out, too.
http://www.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/book/ ... deten.html

[Chuck(G)]

Actually, "Sudetenland" does mean something to me. One can also check this brief description out, too.
http://www.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/book/ ... deten.html

The above link stops a bit short in history. There are still axes a-grinding on both sides of the matter:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2536261.stm

Chuck "not taking sides"(G)

[TubaRay]

Actually, "Sudetenland" does mean something to me. One can also check this brief description out, too.
http://www.humboldt.edu/~rescuers/book/ ... deten.html

The above link stops a bit short in history. There are still axes a-grinding on both sides of the matter:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2536261.stm

Chuck "not taking sides"(G)

True! True! Too bad we human beings can't learn to get along a little better.

[Chuck(G)]

Indeed, Ray.

Here's the Meinl-Weston/Melton history page. It's interesting that one of the most "German" of the tuba builders has its roots in what's now the Czech Republic.

http://www.meinl-weston.com/history.htm

I look at the Cerveny instruments as sort of being caught in a time warp, not daring to change the old designs during the socialist years. Let's hope that they engage in some innovation before the world passes them by.

[tubacdk]

for what it's worth, definitely don't let people make you think that Cervenys aren't competitive with more modern horns. I played a Cerveny Piggy CC for a couple years and I received many great complements on the sound of that horn. It was easy to play, had a great tone, and projected very well. I think John Cradler still uses a Piggy for a lot of stuff, and it's the horn (one and only) he used to get his job with the USMC Band. It had a couple pitch things to deal with, but nothing unusual. I only got rid of it because it was an essential component to get a horn that better suited my needs. Looking back on it, I'm glad I made the deal I did, but I miss it.

-ck

[TubaTodd]

The tuba is fixed. I was very fortunate to have a technician who wouldn't give up and found that the problem was the result of several small things coming together to make a bigger problem. She found:
1. A leak in the 2nd valve tuning slide ( bad solder joint)
2. Valves 3 and 4 out of adjustment
3. The cork on the watervalve was not making a good seal as it was hard and also the wrong size.
4. The spring on the watervalve was weak.

Whether any one of these problems was sufficient by itself to cause my troubles, who knows. The bottom line is that the horn is now fixed and plays well, far beyond my limited abilities, and I am finally happy with it.

Thanks for all of the input everyone gave along the way.

That is an interesting turn of events. I had a studio-mate in college who owned a rotary Boehm and Meinl rotary CC tuba that he played VERY well!!! Well, one day he decided to clean his tuba and ran water through the horn and out came a mouthpiece pouch and I believe something else (my foggy memory says that the second item belonged to his dog). Needless to say both items lodged themselves in his tuba without him noticing. Of course, he felt the tuba played even better with out said items stuck in the bows.