Question regarding 5th valves on new rotary tubas

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Are there any current tuba manufacturers who are making new rotary valve tubas that put the 5th valve rotor after the tuning slide--similar to many piston valve tubas of today--instead of the traditional way of the 5th rotor above the 1st rotor? Just curious....
Mark

[TheHatTuba]

Hi Mark,

The 5th valve on my rotary Gronitz F is after the primary 4, so there's one example!

[bort]

Too lazy to look up photos... but I know the Miraphone Siegfried has a different looking wrap/alignment for the rotors. Not sure if the order of the valves is any different, but it's worth a look.

[itai]

The new B&S 56AFT has it's 5th and 6th valve after the 4th.

[michael_glenn]

Bort, the valves on the Siegfried is still 51234. The fourth is not in line with the others and is larger however.

[bort]

Bort, the valves on the Siegfried is still 51234. The fourth is not in line with the others and is larger however.

AH, okay. Just funny lookin' then.

Not to hijack the thread, but maybe it's related -- why is the usual order 51234?

[bort]

So is it basically that 4-valve tubas existed first, then the 5th was added (in 51234 location), and this has just "stuck" over time?

That is (again, maybe Mark's original point), is there a reason why a rotary tuba can't be engineered as 12345, and if so, would it have some advantages (could the 5th be larger, like on piston tubas)?

Ok, I'll butt out now. Sorry for hijaking, Mark.

[TheHatTuba]

Are there any current tuba manufacturers who are making new rotary valve tubas that put the 5th valve rotor after the tuning slide--similar to many piston valve tubas of today--instead of the traditional way of the 5th rotor above the 1st rotor?

Just wanted to point out what Mark is asking.

My answer is that I've never seen one.

Whoops, misread that! In that case, the Thomann (Nirschl built) F tuba is the only one I have ever seen.

http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomann_profes ... f_tuba.htm" target="_blank

[Ulli]

Plz look here:

http://www.cerveny.co.at/tuben/f_tuben/cfb654-6m.php" target="_blank

[tclements]

Since MOST 5th valve usage is in playing lower notes, it makes PERFECT sense that the 5th valve be at the end of the valve cluster and of a larger bore than 1, 2, 3, or 4. BUT I don't know if it is possible design-wise, or how it would effect playability. My thought is 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it,' but if I was in the R&D department of a tuba builder, I would at least try it. The 5th valve is after the main tuning slide on many 4+1's, so it SHOULD work.

[bort]

Would the bore be the same size or different for that 5th valve? That seems to be one reason for that placement on a piston horn, to allow for a larger bore and more open playing.

I wonder if there's something different going on with rotary horns, like if it matters more that there would be a longer space and more cylindrical tubing between valves 4 and 5.

Who knows, I'm certainly not a tuba designer.

Maybe one of the Chinese companies can design and perfect this? (Seriously, let's see some new ideas! )

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Somebody sent me a message on this subject that I accidentally hit delete on my iPhone--dorry 'bout that-please resend. Thanks.
Mark

[oedipoes]

The new B&S 56AFT has it's 5th and 6th valve after the 4th.

Also the Meinl Weston Kodiak F has this setup.