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Anybody know the physical differences between 1960's King and Cleveland sousaphones?

I know the Cleveland is King's "student" line, but are there any real differences, beyond the name stamp?

I have an earlier Cleveland. The bell is small the body is similar, the bell brace is straight like the Conns. Having played many Kings, my Cleveland plays much better. Tighter sound. Better pitch. More fun.

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There're a few Cleveland Sousas from later in their run around this region which do have the tuning slide before the valves. The only recognizable "Cleveland" elements are the slide ferules and the slightly smaller bell on those.

bloke wrote:King and Olds/Reynolds are suspiciously similar in many ways. Cleveland sousaphones creep even closer to being a blend of Olds/Reynolds and King.

Could that be because H. N. White convinced F. A. Reynolds to leave J. W. York to come to work for him instead? And then later F. A. Reynolds, not wanting to be transferred to the King company marketing arm, left and formed his own company instead, then years later retired and sold it, then after that came out of retirement to work with F. E. Olds?

bloke wrote:King and Olds/Reynolds are suspiciously similar in many ways.

Cleveland sousaphones creep even closer to being a blend of Olds/Reynolds and King.

Yup.