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Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears.

So background info, I am a jazz trombone player (tenor and bass) by trade. I am also aware of the need to own a tuba if I ever want solid money pit gigs (gotta love books that require you to play 3 horns). I currently play a Conn 20k sousa in a brass band I run and love it. I play on a Denis Wick 2SL which I also love. I will mostly just be using the horn for pit work as I am not going to ever be challenging anyone for a brass quintet or symphony spot. As such I have consulted with a few tuba playing friends who recommend I stick with a BBb (learning a new set of fingerings is not my priority as a bone player) and go with a 4/4 (I am still not entirely sure what that entails other than it's a "normal" size) 4 rotary valve horn. Now I am unaware of what brands/models are good horns to use as a pro as a doubler and learning that info for trombones was horrible enough on the internet by myself. This is where you lovely and experienced players come in. I don't have too many options for used BBb horns in my neck of the woods and will likely have to travel a ways to play a horn I'm interested in and therefore want to go for brands/models that are consistently solid (I know a lot of brands can have diamonds in the rough but driving 5+ hours each way hoping for that is not a very fun hobby). Not looking for a new horn just something solid and used for under $5000. So if you'd be so kind as to steer me in the right direction to start looking that would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Josh

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bighonkintuba wrote:I own a Mack TU200.

My analysis and update here (post #s 5 & 6):
http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread ... S2uAhcpBOA" target="_blank" target="_blank

Long story short: It's a nice-sounding piece of crap.

If I had the cash in place, I would buy the Miraphone at Dillon in a hearbeat. I should have waited for something like that to come along instead of drinking the JinBao Kool-Aid.

I am sorry to hear of this for the first time from you. You could have easily contacted us and returned the instrument as we are very liberal in that area.

In a pit you get a mic, you don't need a big sound. There's such a compromise between the size of the sound, ease of clean playing, intonation, and the degree of characteristic sound. If you give up the size of the sound you can get a lot of good stuff. I've played tuba in a pit unmiced and had to play as quietly as I could most of the time.

In general the more dramatic the bell flare, the more easily it'll blat while stovepipe bells might tolerate harder tounging. Tounging too hard is the most obvious tic in trombone doublers.

There is a 3/4 VMI on ebay $2000 obo. It's a cutie! The only 3/4 I could recommend is a Conn 1xJ if you like the american sound, and can avoid blatting it. Yamaha 10x are liked here, I'm not so sure.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VMI-Manufaktur- ... 417fca6243

58mark wrote:easy

http://www.wessex-tubas.com/product/luzern-tuba/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

http://www.mackbrass.com/4_BBb_Tuba_5ROU.php" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

https://www.dillonmusic.com/p-22631-mir ... 86-4v.aspx" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Baltimore brass has a Meinl 18 that looks nice

+1 to this suggestion from Mark.

Also, see this thread&post for a starting point - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63226&hilit=BB#p525146
I figure since you're asking as a doubler, sticking to the point-and-shoot variety of tubas will be easier than learning your fingerings with slide pulls.

I own a Mack TU200 and find that it plays very well. I'm actively using this horn and am a former Army Bandsman. If you want the fit and finish of a Miraphone then you'll have to pay for it but if you want a horn that functions well, plays in tune and is a bargain, this is a good choice.

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bighonkintuba wrote:Lucky you!

I guess that would make ordering a TU200 a gamble.

Davidus1 wrote:I own a Mack TU200 and find that it plays very well. I'm actively using this horn and am a former Army Bandsman. If you want the fit and finish of a Miraphone then you'll have to pay for it but if you want a horn that functions well, plays in tune and is a bargain, this is a good choice.

If you contact me i will be happy to take the horn back and give you a full refund. This is easy for me to do as you have only had it a short time and i would rather take it back than have you bash the horn, quality and eventually my business. My contact informatjon is below.

I will stick my neck out here with a vote of confidence for Mack Brass and Tom. I have wonderful first hand experience with Tom and as a professional musician I can judge a fine instrument when I play it. I have purchased equipment from Tom that I use professionally and with total satisfaction. I'm not sure what else one could ask for. I also plan to purchase more from Mack Brass in the future, and without hesitation.

I'll be interested in the Baby Wisemann when it shows up!!

NCSUSousa wrote:Also, see this thread&post for a starting point - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63226&hilit=BB#p525146
I figure since you're asking as a doubler, sticking to the point-and-shoot variety of tubas will be easier than learning your fingerings with slide pulls.

Thanks for all the help guys. I was leaning towards the Miraphone 186 from Dillons due to a) ease of getting to it and b) seemingly unanimous love for that model but I don't see it come up at in the tuning thread. Do any of you know how much compensating it generally requires?

The 186 I played in HS didn't require much slide pulling, but it definitely helped to understand when to pull the 1st slide.
In general, a BBb 186 will have very few qwirky notes, but it's also not going to be as point-and-shoot as the Conn 20k sousaphone you currently play.

It's really a personal choice and I wanted to make sure you know your options. As long as you're not bothered by a few slide pulls, go for the used 186. That's one I'd take time to try out if I wanted to upgrade my current tuba. I would probably also try the Eastman BBb copy of the King 2341 the same day for comparison.

Awesome thanks guys. I really appreciate the help. I'm going to go try the horn out in the near future. It'll be nice to have a proper horn for doubling. Granted the big money pit work is probably a few years away still at least the smaller stuff I'm doing will be much better with a tuba instead of a bass bone.

Some of the more vintage CC & BBb 186s (from the late 1960s) had lead pipe problems affecting both pitch and the relative stability of the sound (some notes, particularly in the staff were very hard to center)
Several colleagues had their lead pipes replaced and 'voila' - problem solved. (But I know of at least one of those 186 CCs still out there that has not be corrected.) I spoke with Marcus Theinert several years ago about that and he mentioned that it was acknowledge and corrected in subsequent 186 incarnations. I love the design of the CC horn as it is extremely comfortable to hold as the top bow is relatively low compared to the BBb and other CC tubas. For me at least, this helps the breathing function as the torso can be in a balanced position with minimal stress in the left arm. From what I have experienced, the clones capture the basic essence of the present generation Miraphone (albeit, as is quite obvious, the build is not quite up to the Germans).

I have a mack 210 and love it. It has seen a lot of use this past year and I do no regret the purchase for even a second.
Thanks tom Love my horn.

mctuba1 wrote:

If you contact me i will be happy to take the horn back and give you a full refund. This is easy for me to do as you have only had it a short time and i would rather take it back than have you bash the horn, quality and eventually my business. My contact informatjon is below.

That's awfully decent of you.

If a horn is past it's return date, and not more than two years old, couldn't any of the issues have been handled calmly and quietly under warranty if you had only been given the chance??

I purchased a Mack Brass 200S. I really like this tuba. It's extremely versatile. I am currently serving with the U. S. Army TRADOC Band and I have really enjoyed performing with this tuba in quintet, concert band, brass ensemble ,and very recently in an audition. Tom was very helpful while play testing this tuba and took the time(over an hour) to help me with my playing.

Dan

FWIW, with regards to German brass, you get what you pay for. If I was doing your gig (as I used to) I would take a look at the Meinl Weston Hojo series. Not crazy bout the top action that Howard plays, but the rotary and front action piston horns are excellent, and a great size for a pit gig. Yes it costs more than a budget brand, but you are a professional and your tools are your investment, which invests in your career. I would bet that you may even get some more gigs because you sound better, are more confident in the pit, and people see that you are serious about your craft in your circles. Works for me. I get called on for five to six doubles based on what I do. It has taken me a while to put together a "tool kit" but my goal has always been for the person I don't know sitting beside me to think that what I am playing on at the moment is my principal instrument, and my personal challenge is for them to believe that. Hope that helps!