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Hello!

First: let me introduce myself: I'm Roel van Wijk, a jazz trumpet player/composer/arranger from the Netherlands, hence my poor English. Occasionally I play the Bb bass tuba, serving as the bass instrument of a new orleans/balkan/latin band or an acoustic trio.

Now I'm replacing a bass guitar player in another band, other members: guitar, accordion and drums - so I'm the only bass player. The sound is rock-based, but with some polka's in the repertoire.

Do any of you have any experience in how to amplify the sound so that is has enough punch and power at the low end?

I was thinking about putting a Shure SM57, or alike to the inside of the bell with gaffer, at about 15cm from the rim, and using a bass guitar amp for stage monitoring, and then using a DI box to get the signal to the FOH.

Any ideas?

Personally, I don't think you'll get a good tone if you place the mic in the bell. Having a mic that close often leads to a lot of bass distortion and feedback. The SM57 can work, I have used that before, but I would much prefer the sound of a small condenser mic or a ribbon mic. I find that those capture the best dark and resonant tone. However, for that group the SM57 might give you the tone that you guys like better, since it is more rock and less classical.

As for placement, I would place the mic a 4-6 inches (about 9-13cm) above the bell. This will let the sound of the tuba develop better, and will help to prevent any feedback or bass distortion. Also, having the mic too close can cause it to pick up a lot of the metallic sounds of the tuba (the brassy sound of the instrument itself vibrating or valves moving), instead of the cleaner tone that happens just after the bell.

Ultimately, you will want to try different set-ups to see what produces the right sound with what your group is looking for. What I like in my recordings, might be nothing like what you guys like.

Wow! Many thanks for this fast and elaborate reply!

Taping the mike into the bell is something I witnessed while attending a concert of the Young Blood Brass Band, and their bass sound is terrific. I know their Sousaphone player is a genius, and that has something to do with it too but that's the reason I was thinking about this in-bell solution.

Something I might have added: the amplification I'm looking for is for live performing, not recording. So I'll be dancing across the stage which might be a little problematic when I want the mike to be centimeters above the bell. But I'll work something out.

Thanks again for this useful response, any other contributors to the subject are still welcome, of course.

The mics that are usually taped inside the bells are not an SM57. That mic has a significant amount of weight and size, not to mention that it is designed to be about 3-6 inches from the speaker cabinet when in use. Any closer to the sound source and this might has significant bass distortion. The mics that are taped into the bell are generally very small mics (think of lapel mics) and are made specifically for that purpose. http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT ... rument+mic is an example of one of these small condenser mics. This one is not necessarily one that is designed for your purpose, but could work if you found a wireless version.

If you watch the videos on YouTube of Mnozil Brass, you will see the tuba player using a mic rig like I am suggesting: a small mic that is suspended a few inches above the bell. It will also depend on the kind of horn you have. Sousaphones are sometimes a little more directional than a concert horn, and will therefore require a different micing technique than if you are using an upright tuba.

Try out micing your horn with the SM57 in the bell and see how it sounds. When it comes to recording/amplifying anything it all comes down to the mic, the equiment the mic is going into, what else that equipment is sending the signal to, the venue, and then the levels that everything is set at. So, it is hard to give a great answer that will help. Try to have a few different options available so that you can have some back up scenarios in case your best isn't working in a certain venue. I often bring 3-4 different mics with me in case I do not get the sound I want.

Bloke's picture is exactly what I was trying to describe, so thank you bloke! I think this would be your best set up for both acoustics and money spent.

Very similar to what Joe has suggested... this is what works for me:

Some pieces of small telescopic brass tubing... three brace sockets... a piece of brass tubing... a couple of O'rings... three pieces of rubber to fit the bell rim... and a Audio Technica 'studio' mic. Not fancy but it works well on every tuba I own all the way up to the 'jumbo'.

By-the-way... it doesn't matter squat where the mic is. You can just drop it down the bell provided it isn't rattling against the horn.

Ordinarily I loathe close micing a tuba. Even bloke's and Dan's setups are too close for me for legit purposes, actually anything where a tuba sound is desired.

For Roel's situation, take that 57 and stick it. All the way down the bell. Either a hunk of duct tape to suspend it just below the tenon or let it slide all the way to the bottom of the outer wrap. That's what many of the NOLA style players do. Gives you a real tight, lows heavy, extra punchy sound. Certainly not a tuba sound, more like a synth bass.

On my 621 CC, I use a Shure 58 that I attach to a clamp-on desk lamp. I just removed the lamp and wiring from the black plastic clamp and gooseneck. I attached the mic to the gooseneck using black electrical tape. It fits and works very well on the 621. You'd have to replace or extend the gooseneck to use this on a tuba with a large bell.

This is what I use:

https://m.thomann.de/gb/km_10000_mikroh ... r_tuba.htm" target="_blank

Such close miking of the instrument, NOLA style, is done to avoid feedback and doesn't sound as good as getting a more 'bell' sound.

I use an Sd system LM85, which is awesome, but very expensive.

Most bass amps will work, but the addition of a preamp (upright bass type best) will really help shape the sound.

You could also install a pickup, but that is more complicated...

Ya,
If you really want to invest DPA mic's are very lightweight and the preference of many sound tech's.
Audio Technica are also really good.
SD system are actually Sennheiser parts being assembled in a small shop in Amsterdam. I find their products to be a bit outdated and unnecessarily large in comparison to other comparable products out there (including real Sennheisers).

Where to put it (don't go there):
Theoretically you'd want some distance from the bell. Not directly above the throat but always pointing towards it.
A lot of players have said this as well because this way you'll get highs and lows and your amplified sound will hopefully sound like a tuba.

But this isn't necessarily what YOU want. A lot of New Orleans players go for the mic in the bell sound (Dirty Dozen Brass Band). Why? No idea, but the result is that you get a woofy sound which works real well for bass lines (assuming you like this kind of sound). Players using this mic style for bass lines often (but not always) play quite soft and let the tech's pump up the volume to help facilitate hours of glorious bass playing.

I've heard tom tom and bass drum mics work real well for this kind of playing.

Good luck.

For any of gigs that required amplification, I keep it simple and usually I just pitch a Shure 57-sumpin-sumpin down the bell (no tape needed) and amp with my old SWR Workingman .....distortion is usually acceptable, but can add a pedal for overdrive if needed.

I've considered using a rig like Bloke's, but it's another item to remember to bring/assemble/disassemble,.....and great tuba tone is usually not the main focus needed if the gig requires amplification to be heard over a noisy bar crowd and other amp'd instruments.