TubeNet

Posted: **Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:22 pm**

Does anyone here own a Wessex BBb 4/4 Front Piston tuba ‘Ohio’ or a Wessex BBb American 5/4 piston tuba “Michigan”? If so can you please tell me your thoughts on the instrument? Things such as intonation, how it's stood up to your usage, etc.

(Please put wither Ohio or Michigan at the bottom of your reply, so I know which one you're talking about)

Thanks,
Kevin N.

Posted: **Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:24 pm**

I played one of Wessex's 1291 clones a few years ago and thought it excellent, 95ish% of the original.

Posted: **Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:31 am**

The XL comes with both upright AND recording bell. It is based on the excellent Luzern, but is a lot bigger, with broader tone. At the moment only one example is in UK and USA, but I will post more once stock arrives late May.

The Ohio is model Wessex are discontinuing - I believe we only have one silver example left in US warehouse. It is from different factory and although they play well, the consistency of quality is just not good enough for Wessex.

Obviously you want independent reviews from customers, but the Luzern, Michigan and Prague are all really fine BBb tubas which Wessex US agent Andy Loree plays daily himself.

Posted: **Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:32 am**

Could you talk a bit about "z" valves?

Posted: **Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:53 am**

MikeMason wrote:Could you talk a bit about "z" valves?

When I catch up after Frankfurt, will post full explanation with photos showing how they are assembled. But in short they are removable from tuba to make maintenance and cleaning much easier - and alignment precise too (no relying on lines on backplate). Also avoid any slack and therefore excess noise. They are also easy to replace if worn over time, or a valve is causing problems. We think they are a major advance in rotary valve construction. They work just like normal rotary valves and do not affect playing of tuba except beneficially through less rotor noise and precise port alignment.

Posted: **Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:59 am**

Sounds good.rotors and linkages are my biggest remaining issues with the better playing Chinese tubas.a final flush before shipping would probably benefit all new tubas.my Thor had plenty of black stuff in it too.

Posted: **Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:07 am**

Strengthening linkages and thoroughly cleaning of horns are two other issues I am discussing with factory. Bit by bit we are getting there! It was satisfying to find when we did our April quality assurance check at factory, that some issues we raised previous visits have now been fixed. For example, not a single valve cap thread problem out of 200 instruments checked

Posted: **Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:52 pm**

I too would be very interested in hearing opinions of the Wessex "Michigan" model BBb Tuba, especially from owners of the horn. Thanks -

Posted: **Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:42 pm**

I own the Wessex Michigan 5/4 BBb. I think it's an excellent instrument. I've used it in my orchestra for Schostakovich and Prokofiev Symphonies. The university where I teach also owns one. It's given the school good service without problems for three years. I haven't had the chance to compare it directly with the original Miraphone version.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:26 am**

Sam Gnagey wrote:I own the Wessex Michigan 5/4 BBb. I think it's an excellent instrument. I've used it in my orchestra for Schostakovich and Prokofiev Symphonies. The university where I teach also owns one. It's given the school good service without problems for three years. I haven't had the chance to compare it directly with the original Miraphone version.

I tried one of the Dillon 1291 copies and it was really sharp, tried a variety of mouthpieces and had two professors check the instrument. Does the wessex model have this problem that every note is sharp. Could I order a longer tuneing slide??

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:03 pm**

DP wrote:
Neptune wrote:
MikeMason wrote:Could you talk a bit about "z" valves?
When I catch up after Frankfurt, will post full explanation with photos showing how they are assembled. But in short they are removable from tuba to make maintenance and cleaning much easier - and alignment precise too (no relying on lines on backplate). Also avoid any slack and therefore excess noise. They are also easy to replace if worn over time, or a valve is causing problems. We think they are a major advance in rotary valve construction. They work just like normal rotary valves and do not affect playing of tuba except beneficially through less rotor noise and precise port alignment.
This valve concept was patented years ago by Miraphone. I thought "Wessex" had almost entirely scrubbed the net of their false claims to this design after it was exposed as something directly stolen from Miraphone by a Wessex partner/supplier. It was scrubbed so fast that even the wayback archive didn't capture the claims to Miraphone's design on the Wessex website. The link below is the gist of what "mysteriously vanished" from Tubenet, hosted on David Werden's site. The legal term (binding or not) is patent infringement.

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread ... xOzEdQrJpg

I prefer a simpler characterization: sleazy. Surprised that sponsor missed the reference in this thread....better get on it

Please show me a reference to miraphone having the removable valve casing. I'm genuinely interested to see it. Also, genuinely interested to hear why you continually make it you business to hate on these import companies. I'd guess it was xenophobia, but you don't seem to mind European horns. Maybe, it's the Red Scare!... I personally own two horns from Wessex and like them just as much, and even more in most cases, than European horns that I've owned in the past. Not trying to start anything but it's just a little silly.

Posted: **Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:56 pm**

DP wrote: Welcome to tubenet, you just read the reference! I don't feel an obligation to defend this factual account to you beyond the post, if you doubt it...no skin off my nose. Since we are virtual strangers, you are free to define credibility however you choose, but the tools you use for determining that may be different from mine. Problem with that? Also tough. If it was inaccurate, then you need to look up the z-valve claims on the wessex site. Oops, they have been deleted! Now you also drifted into name-calling in your defense of Wessex by proxy. Xenophobia? Hardly. Nothing to do with china, or brits in general for that matter. If you are happy with your purchases, I don't see why you take a differing opinion so personally. If you believe the importer is truly competent, why do you feel a need to defend them? And if you are going to make a post like this and then try to tack a disclaimer onto the end of it...well, I happen to think thats something other than silly...perhaps I should refer you to someone you can look in the face while you attempt your side of discussion.

I'm sorry if I offended you. We're all members of the tuba brotherhood. I shouldn't have slung xenophobia like that. It's true that I took offense to the slandering of my brand of tuba. Really, I'd like just to assure others like me, that are lacking financial assets, that they have really great options of horns from places that historically haven't put out great options. Again, I'm sorry. I do remain curious, however, what you have against them?

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:19 am**

DP wrote:
Neptune wrote:
MikeMason wrote:Could you talk a bit about "z" valves?
When I catch up after Frankfurt, will post full explanation with photos showing how they are assembled. But in short they are removable from tuba to make maintenance and cleaning much easier - and alignment precise too (no relying on lines on backplate). Also avoid any slack and therefore excess noise. They are also easy to replace if worn over time, or a valve is causing problems. We think they are a major advance in rotary valve construction. They work just like normal rotary valves and do not affect playing of tuba except beneficially through less rotor noise and precise port alignment.
This valve concept was patented years ago by Miraphone. I thought "Wessex" had almost entirely scrubbed the net of their false claims to this design after it was exposed as something directly stolen from Miraphone by a Wessex partner/supplier. It was scrubbed so fast that even the wayback archive didn't capture the claims to Miraphone's design on the Wessex website. The link below is the gist of what "mysteriously vanished" from Tubenet, hosted on David Werden's site. The legal term (binding or not) is patent infringement.

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread ... xOzEdQrJpg

I prefer a simpler characterization: sleazy. Surprised that sponsor missed the reference in this thread....better get on it

Any possibility he simply realized he made a mistake??

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:54 pm**

DP wrote:
Three Valves wrote: Any possibility he simply realized he made a mistake??
Of course Wessex made "a mistake": claiming they had a patent for something they didn't patent, for a design they didn't design, and attributing it to Wessex when it was skanked from Miraphone by their factory suppliers. In other words, the mistake was lying publicly making claim to legal ownership of a design they knowingly had nothing to do with...this was no "oops I didn't know"....just because they didn't know their supplier stole the patented design from someone else doesn't let them off the hook. Like I said...sleazy

Seems to me if their supplier stole the patented design from someone else that would make Wessex a victim of the supplier as well as Miraphone.

You might say they should have known, but sleazy is going a bit too far.

Unless there's more....

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:15 pm**

Like any responsible company, Wessex Tubas withdrew publicity and stopped production of the Z valves while carrying out due diligence to ensure no breach of patent once we became aware that one existed.

What I can say is the Z valves differ from the patent in some notable aspects and the principle did not originate with Miraphone but goes right back to the 19th century. In fact I have vintage Bohemian tuba with similar valves. We have shown the Z valves to Miraphone who appear unconcerned.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:57 pm**

Three Valves wrote:
DP wrote:
Three Valves wrote: Any possibility he simply realized he made a mistake??
Of course Wessex made "a mistake": claiming they had a patent for something they didn't patent, for a design they didn't design, and attributing it to Wessex when it was skanked from Miraphone by their factory suppliers. In other words, the mistake was lying publicly making claim to legal ownership of a design they knowingly had nothing to do with...this was no "oops I didn't know"....just because they didn't know their supplier stole the patented design from someone else doesn't let them off the hook. Like I said...sleazy
Seems to me if their supplier stole the patented design from someone else that would make Wessex a victim of the supplier as well as Miraphone.

You might say they should have known, but sleazy is going a bit too far.

Unless there's more....

While I would never presume to speak for DP, he may have been referring to something in the original Wessex promotional postings that read like a patent claim to me but who knows?

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:04 am**

bigtubby wrote:
While I would never presume to speak for DP, he may have been referring to something in the original Wessex promotional postings that read like a patent claim to me but who knows?

So maybe he should have said "patent pending" instead??

Sleazy is still going too far.

Jonathan's explanation seems plausible to me.

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:49 am**

STOP! ENOUGH!

Before anything else is said, let's get to the bottom of this: does, or does not Miraphone have a patent on a valve, or something related to a valve, that is a change in the way the valve is constructed so that it can be removed in a different manner than the conventional process? And on the other hand, does, or does not Wessex or its valve supplier have such a patent?

I know how to search patent records, and I did not find such a patent, at least a USA patent. I challenge the entire forum to search and post an actual link to an actual patent that is relevant, and not just one that talks about air flow, like the Thayer or Wilk patents.

To all the above: link in the supposed patent, or shut up and go home. Too many aspersions have been cast.

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:28 pm**

I think we should keep in mind that we are a small minority-- tuba players who actually own tubas. Most tuba players do not because they can't afford them, not even the budget horns. We should also be glad that there are companies out there that sell affordable quality tubas--I started back playing on a Chinese clone 20 years ago and own one today. We are MOST fortunate.

JJ

Posted: **Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:16 pm**

bloke wrote:Vwat is zee valve...??

25 after zee A valve??

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