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Now I think we all can mostly agree that the very low end this horns spectrum leaves quite a bit to be desired, so I'm posting really just to ask, how have any of you guys who own one deal with this, say in the case that you would really need to get those pedals to project? mouthpieces Maybe, using the 2 whole step convertion or anything else? I only ask because I find this to be the only real flaw in this model and I'm wondering if doing something as taboo as adding an additional valve with a much larger bore might really open up that end without causing an array of other problems such as throwing off intonation or response or even hurting the sound in General. I understand this is a somewhat odd proposition but I really love this horn and only wish there was something I could do about the pedals being so stuffy and if this might improve anything I'm willing to give it a shot.

I had the same issues with one I had back in the 1970s. A friend had one from the same batch and his was a 'cherry.' Both were 5 valvers. I eventually gave up and wound up with one of the King 1940 CCs that it was modeled after. A much freer blowing instrument with a great low end, albeit just 4 valves. I just sold that one last year and it is now in Orlando in a new home. While it had a great sound and response, the pitch quirks drove me crazy. I understand that out of the 3 major issues: Intonation, timbre and response, one can really only expect to get 2 of them to be optimal. So for whatever that means, you may not be able to tweak the horn enough to get it to speak better in the low end without loosing something in the process. This sounds rather extreme, but since some of those models were gems, the difference may be the manner it which it was assembled rather than poorly designed parts. For instance with a lot of stress between branches and tubing, even with too much solder at certain points the horn's response can greatly be dampened. Also joints that do not match under the ferules. etc. etc. add to the problems. I never liked all the solder on mine between the lead pipe and the bell. My suggestion would be pricey, (its not my money) but a complete take down and reassembly of the instrument might have remarkable results. I don't mean to bash German workmanship, but there was only one truly parallel slide on mine. The rest were uneven and very hard to pull. I had one of their F tubas as well, with the same slide issues and sloppy assembly. Great sound but funky intonation. Another friend removed the 5 & 6 valves from his F and it seriously opened up the sound. But then it was only being used as a parade horn in a European military band. A dependent 5th valve off of the 4th would be a suggestion on your Bill Bell horn. One of the original ones had a rotor on the main tuning slide (seen today on some Yamaha euphs) I believe the Brandsdotter MW F tuba is in this configuration, that is a dependent 5th valve.

So, perhaps this might come off as 'heresy' but I am not enamored necessarily with "old world workmanship." I believe it is close to being a myth. Things have however improved over the years.
Some times you just need to take the bull by the horns and seriously modify your horn - or - the alternative.

tuben wrote:If your horn is presently five valves like mine (was), then is introducing a larger bore fifth valve that occurs as #1 in order seems a bad idea?

It IS a five valver and yeah I understand that this is kind of uncharted territory and I'd honestly rather not do it if I can find another way to get the low register to speak a bit more boldly, as mentioned above I can imagine a rebuild being a good idea regardless, about how much would that cost by the way? Im not really experienced in modifying horns but I do have a cerveny 601 whose main bugle is pretty useless (giant hole in the upper bow) but the rotor section is perfectly fine, in other words I'm trying to find a good use for it all while aiding the bells low range. Again this is just an idea I'm Throwing around

I kind of miss that horn. Want to trade for a piggy? The low register roars on it, and it's one of the best piggys I've played.