What are the uses for tuba mutes?

[BBruce107]

Hey all I am curious on what people's opinions are on tuba mutes and what the real point of tuba mutes are? Also how does metal compare to wood, and plastic? I am supposed to give a presentation in which I need to talk about mutes and I have little knowledge on tuba mutes, and euphonium mutes. Any information would be helpful Thanks!

[bisontuba]

When the mute is not in use, it makes an excellent coffee cup holder...
Mark

[roweenie]

They are an excellent tool that effectively changes a sound that took years to cultivate, into crap.

(please forward this to all "would-be" composers and arrangers)

All kidding aside, they do a good job of providing a new and interesting tamber. Unfortunately, I think some writers use it as a tool to make a tuba play softer; in this I think they miss the point somewhat.

[chronolith]

Saw the CSO play Shostakovich's 11th symphony not long ago. I think this is a good use of the mute not to create "quiet" but to create "distance". Very cool sound in section.

Pokorny played that big Miraphone BBb that he has been using quiet a bit this season. He was throttling the mute most of the time it was used (left hand - bringing it out of the bell in small increments as required). Maybe this allows more control or maybe this avoids those weird bum notes that mutes sometimes cause in the low register. My Trumcor does a great job with my BAT but the low Ab below the staff just sticks in the horn with the mute, which is a PITA for the Firebird suite and the two note muted tritone thing towards the end.

But yeah, especially in the university setting, the mute is wildly abused into uselessness and cheap effect.

[BBruce107]

All kidding aside, they do a good job of providing a new and interesting tamber. Unfortunately, I think some writers use it as a tool to make a tuba play softer; in this I think they miss the point somewhat.[/quote]

What specifically changes in tamber on the instruments? Does the difference in material change the tamber significantly as compared to the other mutes?

[doublebuzzing]

Saw the CSO play Shostakovich's 11th symphony not long ago. I think this is a good use of the mute not to create "quiet" but to create "distance". Very cool sound in section.

Pokorny played that big Miraphone BBb that he has been using quiet a bit this season. He was throttling the mute most of the time it was used (left hand - bringing it out of the bell in small increments as required). Maybe this allows more control or maybe this avoids those weird bum notes that mutes sometimes cause in the low register. My Trumcor does a great job with my BAT but the low Ab below the staff just sticks in the horn with the mute, which is a PITA for the Firebird suite and the two note muted tritone thing towards the end.

But yeah, especially in the university setting, the mute is wildly abused into uselessness and cheap effect.

He's using a MIraphone BBb? Which model is it? I know he has a BBb MW Fafner too.

[BBruce107]

To clarify I am not looking into buying one, I am just looking for information about the mutes and how they work.

[chronolith]

He's using a MIraphone BBb? Which model is it? I know he has a BBb MW Fafner too.

Siegfried. Got a really close look at it when it was in Dana Hofer's shop at the same time I was. Kinda wish I had one of the ninja smoke bombs so I could make a clean getaway with it. Missed opportunity...

[PaulMaybery]

Mutare: Italian - to change something.

Timbre 'change' is the end result and differently constructed mutes offer different results. Bloke's last comments offered insight about construction design and materials.

I my case, if I can be more specific, I use a Balu (basically wooden) mute with a large chamber on the top. It plays very well in tune, and has a beautiful "shaded & etherial"
wooden sound. Ion Balu instructed me to order the largest one to fit the CC BAT and explained that it would also work on the smaller F tuba with the proper corks. Trying to use the smaller Balu mute in the larger horn, he mentioned, could be somewhat problematic.

For a more traditional and metallic sound, I have an old (1970) Ron Apperson aluminum and wooden mute that seems to be lasting for ever. It also works in the BAT, but I have added an additional 4 inches to the small end (2 inch diameter tin can), as well as oversized corks to remedy the intonation on the 6/4 horn. These corks are nominally an inch thick and about 5 inches long and backed with velcro.

The extension piece and corks are removable. (velcro) This mute works great as a practice mute with the addition of a foam ring that fits around the narrow end, thus effectively closing off the bell.

Corks: I have, besides the 3 sizes of corks supplied with the Balu mute, a number of smaller and intermediate sizes that I have made myself by gluing up strips of 1/8 gasket cork and sanding to shape.

Velcro: I have adapted the Apperson mute with velcro and can interchange corks as needed for fitting different horns and/or different tone color/shadings.

On the F cimbasso, I adapted the Denis Wick bass trombone - adjustable cup mute. Steve Wick mentioned that the baritone horn straight mute works best as a cimbasso straight, but I wanted a cup for playing 'cool jazz' solos. The bass trombone mute, in its original design, had intonation and centering issues in the F cimbasso bell. The solution was to add about a 3 inch extension to the small end. This is essentially made from a 1" PVC tube (rigidity is important) and can be inserted and removed as it is secured by velcro. The corks were also made much larger to work in the larger cimbasso bell and are adjustable thanks to velcro. Of course the cup is removable and it makes a great cimbasso straight mute. By removing the extension and larger corks, it then returns to its Bb bass trombone function.

Mutes serve a variety of functions for both performance and practice and I feel are a very important tool. One that does not fit or out of tune is, of course, a nuisance. I have no idea of how many hours I fussed with mine, but I find them a pleasure to use. I suppose should I add another tuba to the arsenal, then I would need to find the adjustment recipe for that particular horn.

The distance the mute fits into the bell has, to a large degree, an effect on the timbre. A variety of corks can offer the solution. Or as was mentioned earlier, manually raising or lowering the mute in the bell chamber in performance can also make for a subtle adjustment.

I would imagine that most mutes, right off the rack, would benefit from 'some' voicing adjustments. Perhaps this is where much of the negative feedback comes with regard to mutes.

There is also quite a difference when playing soloistically, or when playing in a section with 3 or 4 muted trombones. I'm not sure there is a 'plug and play' situation here. What works for a solo often does not fit into the sound spectrum or for that matter support the harmonics of the trombone section. My experience there dictates the muted tuba have a somewhat more excited sound to fit upward into the harmonics of the trombones. Experience, and trial and error is key.

[barry grrr-ero]

. . . something you need to spend more money on.

[eupher61]

What are the uses?
1) to fullfil the composer's intent for a change in timbre from a normal tuba sound.

2) to thoroughly piss the tuba player off when the muted part is written on low Db's, and said player is playing a 4v CC tuba.

3) to give an audience something to laugh at besides the oboe squawks.

4) during a kiddie concert with a brass quintet, a means of threatening the kids who run into the player's space. "If it falls out, it will kill you."

5) a good place to stash beer cans and candy bar wrappers during rehearsal.

[TubaKen]

Since you asked for opinions, and in spite of PaulMaybery's thoughtful, reasoned response, I have the following to say: MUTES SUCK! This opinion has been shared with me by more than one pro. They're just a pain to schlepp around, and (as was mentioned), a lot of composers just use them to make the tuba soft (note to budding composers: I can already play so soft you can't hear me from fifteen feet away.)
The concert we just finished playing included Bernstein 1, which has two short notes that are muted. I had to bring the damn thing to each rehearsal and concert for those two notes (a not uncommon occurrence.) One of the cellist's said to me "ooh, that's the coolest mute ever". No. No it is not.

[roweenie]

Speaking of "mute"...

How many of us are old enough to remember when people would walk up to us, say nothing, hand us one of these little cards, and wait ?


obverse


reverse

bloke "At least, you got something for your money, and didn't have to listen to that same old store about 'gas/bus money to go see my child in the hospital'."

Not only do I remember these, several years ago a young man tried to rob me using this scam. As I produced my wallet to give him a buck (yeah, I'm a chump), he grabbed my wallet and ran. Little did he know I would go after him. He tried to weave in and out between parked cars (this was in Manhattan), but it had recently snowed, and he slipped and fell on the ground.

He looked hungry, so I offered him a couple of knuckle sandwiches, and he ate them heartily. As a "thank you" for my generosity, he returned my wallet to me.

Then I went to McSorely's and had a light and a dark.

[tbn.al]

During said gig at the new Porsche NA Headquarters last night another use for tuba mutes was discovered. They make a great roadblock that must be moved several times prior to the performance to allow late arriving trumpet players, percussionists, sound people and various other clowns access to the rear of the stage.

[PaulMaybery]

Ah yes!!! We do have 'real estate' issues when it comes to finding space on the stage for all of our toys, though nothing compared to percussionists. In several symphonic bands in which I play, the percussion section has the complete back row from side wing to side wing. I love to move their stuff to get to my seat - as I schlepp, in several trips, my tuba rest, folder and junk bag, and finally my 6/4 BAT, through marimbas, xylophones and all sorts of horizontal 'crapolla' (I smile and grin at them.)

But for some reason it seems we (tubaists) can be walked all over and expected to keep moving our stuff, though sometimes I can be the jerk and simply refuse. (I'm sure that is the 'raison' for most of the hatred of tuba mutes)

At a recent rehearsal I had a miscreant bassoonist step on the tuba bell as he passed by - and was totally unaware. I confronted him and asked if he would mind if I sat on his bassoon? He is a good friend and a peach of a guy, but those things happen when things are stupidly crowded or not thoughtfully set up.

One more pet peeve. Because of schlepping a ton of tuba crap/mutes/stands/cimbasso etc, etc, I usually arrive pretty early to the gig (about 30 to 45 minutes.) I unpack and systematically set up my 'turf' and then warm up. At the end of the gig, invariably, everyone else cases and crap are piled on or blocking my cases. Usually this means I carelessly move it aside to retrieve my stuff. Sometimes it is difficult to stay on good terms with one's colleagues. But then being considerate is indeed a 'two way street.'

[tubeast]

BBruce107,
I´m sure there´s TONS of material around on the use of mutes for trumpets, trombones, and french horns.
Whatever is found in those texts will apply to Tuba mutes as well. The different mutes (harmon, straight, cup,...) have very distinct effects on the instrument´s sound.
Pro Level British Brass Band repertoire often makes effective use of mutes, and Youtube might come up with good examples.

Hans

[Rick Denney]

Ah yes!!! We do have 'real estate' issues when it comes to finding space on the stage for all of our toys, though nothing compared to percussionists. In several symphonic bands in which I play, the percussion section has the complete back row from side wing to side wing. I love to move their stuff to get to my seat - as I schlepp, in several trips, my tuba rest, folder and junk bag, and finally my 6/4 BAT, through marimbas, xylophones and all sorts of horizontal 'crapolla' (I smile and grin at them.)

But for some reason it seems we (tubaists) can be walked all over and expected to keep moving our stuff, though sometimes I can be the jerk and simply refuse. (I'm sure that is the 'raison' for most of the hatred of tuba mutes)

At a recent rehearsal I had a miscreant bassoonist step on the tuba bell as he passed by - and was totally unaware. I confronted him and asked if he would mind if I sat on his bassoon? He is a good friend and a peach of a guy, but those things happen when things are stupidly crowded or not thoughtfully set up.

One more pet peeve. Because of schlepping a ton of tuba crap/mutes/stands/cimbasso etc, etc, I usually arrive pretty early to the gig (about 30 to 45 minutes.) I unpack and systematically set up my 'turf' and then warm up. At the end of the gig, invariably, everyone else cases and crap are piled on or blocking my cases. Usually this means I carelessly move it aside to retrieve my stuff. Sometimes it is difficult to stay on good terms with one's colleagues. But then being considerate is indeed a 'two way street.'

Given the size of my orbit around Tubenet these days, I probably would have missed this thread. But this post--EVERYTHING that is in it--called to me from across the vastness of space, and required me to fly to a lower altitude.

What I don't get (to add to this excellent rant) is why trumpet players demand to have their cases adjacent to their chairs at rehearsals, even the ones who bring only one instrument. They put them behind their chairs, right where I need to put my music stand. And they they keep scooting their chairs back as they play. Oh, I know why they need the case. It's a place to store their damn mute. But it doesn't work--one of them will still invariably drop or kick over a mute during the extended pianissimo.

Back to the topic (not that anyone cares at this point): I own an Apperson mute that Ron made in the early 80's. It's the only mute I could get on short notice when the orchestra in which I was playing programmed a piece that used it (Barber? the memory escapes me). When I first brought it to rehearsal, the conductor broke into a fit of laughter. After I had paid for the mute and express shipping to get it there in time, and considering my pay for that gig (zero), I was pissed.

Near as I could tell, that work wanted an edgy timbre, like a trombone being played loudly, but not actually that loud. In the case of one famous muted passage, the low B in Pictures at an Exhibition, that's exactly the desired effect.

Rick "always up for complaints about the lack of stage etiquette from other musicians" Denney

[eupher61]

Another use for a metal mute: Effectively hide the nuclear bomb you build when your amateur orchestra programs Dvorak 9 for the 3rd year in a row with no other tuba part on the concert.

[iiipopes]

To me, the word "mute" is a misnomer. It is more to change color than to reduce dynamic level. So because it stuffs the bell, MORE air is needed to resonate the mute and obtain the color. The dynamic will usually take care of itself.

Now, if only the trumpet section would integrate that: how many times have I seen in all the bands I have been in over the years when the trumpet section was indicated to mute, that they not only shoved it in as tight as it would go, obliterating any desired resonance or color, then in addition also put their horns down and actually played softer! Instead of a mute, you might as well stuff the bell with cardboard and throw a folded hand towel over the bell.

Color! It is all about change of tone color!

[rodgeman]

Here is Mnozil brass and the tuba is using a mute:

https://youtu.be/bL0lZy3lX0E