Slurring Bb to C

[chao50]

Hello Tubenet, I'm a sophomore in high school that's pretty new to these forums (Been playing Tuba for a short 5 years). Anyways, I just had a quick question.

For some very odd reason I cannot slur clearly from Bb (2 ledger lines below staff) to C. What I mean by this is that there's a noticeable moment of poor/unclear tone for a second before the C comes into focus. Slurring from C to D is also bad, to a lesser extent. I've practiced long tones, buzzing exercises, you name it. I've worked with my private teacher and my band director. I know its not my tuba because the problem persist on various models. My teacher says it may have something to due with the pressure difference of the 4th valve.

Do you guys have any suggestions? I'm open to trying just about anything. I'm using this forum as a last resort, because I know that there's many very experienced players here. I know that my problem may not be addressable due to the fact that none of you are physically here with me. Thank you for any help!

[PaulMaybery]

Try this.

1. Blow 'through' the BBb with a certain even and steady push of air and continue it through the change into the CC. If there is any hesitation or diminishing of the wind support the note will probably crack.

2. Some people even add a little crescendo at the moment of the slur, more or less to guarantee that there is sufficient support going into the next note.

3. If you had one of those hospital respirometers, you could use that to visualize the eveness of the air stream.

4. If you can get a crystal clear Kelly mouthpiece, you may also be able to detect what is interrupting the buzzing and causing the 'blip.'

5. Also understand that firm corners - somewhat in the forward position - should keep the tone flowing in a steady stream.

For some there is almost a 'gun shy type of flinch' just before the note change. The first suggestion at the top should help remedy that.

Good luck. There is always a solution. Finding it ... well that's all the fun.

One last thought: It may be a coordination issue between the change of buzz/pitch and the fingering change. Try anticipating the change a little quicker and get the valves quickly pressed all the way down on the beat. Starting to press them on the beat and they will be behind and out of sync.

[chao50]

Yeah, thanks Paul, the crescendo technique worked for me as well. I do still feel a very small gap, but I'm sure it will go away as I practice more. Once again, thanks so much!

[swillafew]

I was lucky I had Paul for a teacher way back when. I don't think I ever had a lesson where I wasn't told that the whole business would benefit from more air.

[Art Hovey]

Another technique that helps is legato tonguing. Just repeat the interval over and over, gradually using less and less tongue. Gradually change from a hard "T" or "D" to sort of a "Th", until you are still using the tongue, but not enough for anyone to hear it.

In the middle octave, going from Bb in the staff up to C (on some 4-valve BBb tubas) I find that using 4th instead of 1st for the C makes the slur easier.

[tubeast]

I assume the OP´s issue has been treated to their satisfaction already.
A hint I received from my teacher might be beneficial, though:

Starting from the already mentioned use of "more air", he suggested to additionally think "glissando" during the slur.
Sort of like using an inclined slope istead of the steps of a stair to climb a hill.

I had built up a habit of trying to force the slur by a sudden increase of air flow.
This led to an effect that resembled tongued notes rather than slurs, even during lip slurs.
My teacher´s hint solved the issue for ME.

Have fun

Hans

[iiipopes]

All the above.

And then once you have mastered the breath and embouchure aspects of the slur, then if you really need it to be even more legato, you have a 4-valve tuba, it is a slow passage, and you have time to reset the 1st valve slide after the slur before playing the next note that needs 1st valve either alone or in combination:

Pull the 1st valve slide about an inch and a half, play BBb with 1+4 and slur between the BBb and the C by lifting the 1st valve and playing C as 4 alone.

[PaulMaybery]

iiipopes. This is a great thing to suggest.

I use it frequently on the CC and F tubas. Especially when coming off of the fingered 4th valve and landing on the open note. The open fingering always seems to be a little too - what is the word? - heavy? big? Bright? the wrong color? Blatty? ??? By simply adding what is basically a whole step to the 4th valve - we stay on the same harmonic and also make much less change in the tube length - thus maintaining a similar overall resistance.

I also happen to love the depth of sound of the 1st (or 5th valve) in combination with the 4th. When we stop to think about it, (on a BBb) we play B natural 4 and 2, so why not BBb 4 & 1(with a pull) or 4 & 5.
On a 5 valve tuba, the 5th is already tuned a bit lower than 1. But granted we all do not have 5 valves.

We can also make a comparison to string instruments such as a violin. The notes on the open strings sound somewhat different from the fingered notes.

Back to breathing: When I do encounter a problem with the sound not being continuous, I always look for a 'glitch' in the 'air feed.' Disciplining the breathing apparatus is probably the wisest investment we can make in our 'practice drills.' If it has to be thought of when we are playing, well, if we wind up concentrating on something else, we are prone to slack off on the wind aspect. It needs to become an automatic response when we pick up the horn to blow.

For a while, I used to write "Big Breath" at the beginning of each etude. Then just 'BB' (I had a friend, a Claude Gordon prodigy, who had a rubber stamp made with red ink which he stamped "Big Breath" at the top of every page.) On a good day in a perfect world, this should not be necessary ....BUT... BUT... BUT... he eventually trained himself.

Creating new habits is not easy, and the 'more' we need to think of it, well, then the 'less' of a habit it actually is. But there is so much to discuss about habit building, discipline, conditioned response, and all that. Something for another thread.

[patricklugo]

i had problems with slurring when I came back to playing the tuba after taking 11 years off.
it took me 2 years to able to slur with a good sound. the biggest problem I was using a lot of embouchure movements which does not help center the tones. and also I want to power the tuba(I did not trust my self to sound good) , which let me to have too much tension in the embouchure.

I took a lot of work using scales, rochut and watching my self in the mirror. once I figured that the only for me to get better is to really work on it, regardless if I sounded good or not. that is when the improvement came in.

it took two years of struggling and being upset at my self for not being able to slur correctly. sometimes you have to admit, that you have a problem and seek your teacher help. at the end , you are the one that need to be your own teacher.

use a mirror , see what is going on, when you have the problem. and see when you don't have a problem. that should help you guide to solve it

[MaryAnn]

I found with horns, which is where the majority of my experience is, that it mattered as to when I timed the buzz change compared to the valve change. Even between two different maker horns, I'd have to pay attention to when the valve was exactly all the way down/up and time the buzz change to it. I haven't seen anyone else ever refer to that, but I also seem to want my slurs to sound more like a stringed instrument slur, rather than the usual slight "wah" that I hear in horn slurred passages (and this is pro horn players I am referring to.) The "wah" is only necessary if your timing is not quite right.

[roweenie]

You could also consider (as an EXERCISE) pulling the #1 slide out as far as possible and ALTERNATING (again: as an exercise)

slurring Bb to C

1-4 to 4

FWIW, this method actually works very well as an *occasional* choice (not as an exercise) of fingering on a 5 valve ("flat whole step") BBb tuba as 4-5 to 4 (Think of mvt. 6 - "The Bells", of the "William Byrd Suite").

"Whatever gets you through the night".

[Roger Lewis]

Certain horns require a more consistent air stream than others. For example, most modern day Miraphone have all valves turning into the air stream allowing for smoother slurs. Meinl Weston, Cerveny and Rudolf Meinl horns (some of them) have the 3rd and 4th valves turn opposite or across the air and if the air stream is not steady, these will tend to have more of a "bump". I can slur smoothly on my Cerveny Piggy but I have to make sure I don't alter the air stream in the process. I was experimenting with this just the other day.

Just my observations.

Roger