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Does "Altitude " effect Tuba playing -----ex: sealevel playing vs , say, Denver, ?

I have spent significant amounts of time working/playing in Colorado: Denver to Breckenridge, Vail, Aspen, etc., etc.

I never had any issues with the altitude. I guess (???) you can tell that the air is 'thinner,' but being there and playing my tuba there was no big deal for me.

One thing that I always did though was drive to those locations from my home which is somewhere around 450 ft. above sea level. I noticed that those that flew in and were simply 'dropped' into a high altitude situation were almost always the ones that had the most trouble. I suppose that it stands to reason that driving allows one to gradually adjust the the change in elevation. It is also pretty easy to get dehydrated, so keep drinking plenty of water.

Tom wrote:It is also pretty easy to get dehydrated, so keep drinking plenty of water.

^ My first thought as well. Your mouth will get dry a little sooner than usual, so just keep that in mind. Apart from that, unless you are playing something with non-stop pedal tones, you probably won't notice too much difference, or at least not so much that you can't figure it out during a rehearsal.

Also, depending on your age, keep in mind -- alcohol works quicker at altitude. First time I went to Denver, I was a cheap date!

As a Coloradoan, I notice the difference when I leave altitude, but it's somewhat minor. it doesn't REALLY make in a difference in how I breathe, and sometimes I need a day or two before I'm comfortable when I come back. When I marched corps, it was VERY noticeable, having been conditioned at altitude and leaving for a tour at sea level. It was much much easier to perform, but there was a lot more athleticism involved. The opposite was true when we came back to Denver for the home show.

I think ultimately it depends on the person. Knew someone who had their first semester as a grad student up here who said it took them a whole semester before they learned to breathe properly at altitude.

Singing and Tuba playing are probably not relative , but J D Sumner , a renowned Bass singer ( Bloke Knows who he is) said in interview that he had more problems hitting his low notes in Denver than at lower altitudes . Probably the thin air taking more breath to git-R-done.

We, that is the Great Western Rocky Mountain Brass Band, have been playing for a week each summer in Silverton, CO. since 1982. Elevation 9380 ft. In performance, just sitting and pumping air (hyperventilation) into brass instruments actually compensates for the lack of oxygen. So the act of playing is not a problem. Some have mentioned though that the length of their phrases is a little shorter, but no real discomfort in playing.

However, things like standing up quickly to play a solo or a leap up to the top row of the stage risers will often trigger the need for a few deep breaths. Most of our musicians, myself included, are from relatively low land - that is under 1000 feet elevation.

And yes, dehydration is an issue. Do to the dryness, it is hard to notice any perspiration, but moisture does indeed leave the body in larger amounts than at sea level. Fatigue seems to set in a little quicker as well.

Non-human issues range from pitch on flute type instruments (For some reason these instruments tend to play sharp.) and I've noticed that drums also seem to sound high and brittle or bright sounding and not as resonant as they do at lower levels. I have been told that is also an air density issue.

I never remained at that altitude for more than 2 weeks, and in that amount of time I never acclimated to the elevation. In fact, by the time I was ready to depart for the flatlands, I was pretty beat after 20 hours of rehearsal and 10 hours of concerts.

lowpitchmoravian wrote:Singing and Tuba playing are probably not relative , but J D Sumner , a renowned Bass singer ( Bloke Knows who he is) said in interview that he had more problems hitting his low notes in Denver than at lower altitudes . Probably the thin air taking more breath to git-R-done.

The extreme example of a density effect is what helium does to the pitch of the human voice. Thinner air does make it harder to get down to pitch when singing. In the case of brass instruments, the thinner air will cause sharpness of pitch, but apparently it's not unmanageable.

I lived in CO for a little while after living my whole life at sea level. In Denver, I barely perceived any difference. It didn't even change my running/swimming- I was just as fast as at sea level. The only time I ever noticed any altitude difference is when I climbed my first 14er. However, I'm in pretty decent shape. It most certainly didn't change my tuba playing, although I did drink considerably more water.

No. Unless you are out of shape or dehydrated or hungover.

I just played 2 weeks at the Buell Center in Denver. It felt hard to play tuba for the first 10 days I was there, and my string bass and the woodwinds all were dry. We left with one bass clarinet and one oboe cracked from the dryness there. The locals tell me it takes one to two weeks to acclimate there. Also, I don't know if it was the pit, or our collective ears there, the pit orchestra I was playing with agreed that everything sounded muffled.

I normally get a seat on the plane for my tuba... Maybe a new kind of mile high club if I get it out for a quick toot?

This thread reminds me of a former instructor of mine... He told a story several times of teaching a master class at high altitude and really going after some guy because he couldn't hold a certain long note in an excerpt for the full duration. Sure enough, curiosity got the better of this instructor, and he pulled out his tuba later that evening only to find he couldn't hold it out either.

Yes there is a difference.

I grew up and went to college at sea level. Upon moving to Albuquerque for grad school it took me about a month to make a phrase and rid myself of a "grit" in the sound. Now after spending 20 years at sea level I have moved back up to 4500 feet. Same story, although this time working through it has not completely happened yet. Probably age and lack of desire I would guess.

Sea level good. Mountains suck.

bloke wrote:What about very low altitude playing...??

That would definitely play flat.

I spent last summer playing in Breckenridge, and after opening night (Brahms Academic Festival and Prokofiev 5) left me a little light headed and winded, I decided to check out one of the oxygen bars in downtown Breck. It helped a lot! If you're struggling, that might be something to look into.

Denver is only a mile up (5280ft), whereas Breckenridge is much higher (9600ft). I think you should be fine! Whenever we went back down to Denver from Breck, everything felt much easier. Good luck!

I regularly play a 4th of July concert at 8000 feet, and on a brass I have had no problem. If I had to make an oboe reed to work at that altitude it would be a different story. However, I've lived at that altitude the last two summers, and of course am completely acclimated for the concert....we have had people come up and have to go back down due to altitude sickness, if they were tired to start with or not properly hydrated.
During the summers I go between 2500 and 8000 feet a couple times a week; some people actually feel better at altitude because of a biochemical thing with dopamine (increases.) Others feel worse for the same reason. If you tend to be low on dopamine, you're going to feel better at altitude, and if you tend to be high in dopamine, you're maybe not going to feel as well at altitude.

It's not the altitude,

It's the attitude!!

schlepporello wrote:It can be done.

[LIKE!]

Everybody has talked about the physiological effects, including duration: how about pitch and intonation?

I live and work at 7000 feet. Every summer I spend about a month at sea level in the midwest and east coast, and I frequently visit lower elevations in surrounding states. I grew up and went to school at or near sea level, and with plenty of humidity.

For me, the biggest difference is the dryness, and that seems to be what hits touring brass players coming through Flagstaff the hardest, too. For us it's a double-whammy; we are on a mountain in the middle of the desert. Also, I find that I have more trouble playing extra-long phrases between breaths up here. Many of my Snedecor videos were recorded at altitude, and I must admit some of them were perceptibly harder than when I learned them as a student and living at sea level, even though my playing is *theoretically* smarter and more efficient now.

We frequently have excellent pros coming through town for just one day, and with no time to acclimate the biggest problems to hit them are dryness and needing to adjust to more frequent breathing.

When I first moved to Flagstaff from Indianapolis, it took me the entire first semester (four months) to feel normal at altitude. After six years of spending July and August lower and wetter than here, it takes me about two or three weeks to feel normal when I get back to AZ. When I do perform at lower elevations, I find I have a window of about three or four days when I feel like superman, brass-wise, and then I've acclimated, more or less.

Also, it is still infinitely easier for me to exercise at lower elevations. That has a lot to do with why there are so many professional and Olympic athletes who live and train here in Flagstaff. My four-mile jog today really beat me up, but a month ago I jogged six miles in LA without getting tired or dehydrated.

It will all depend on the level of elevation, other characteristics of the region, and of course your own individual physiology. I have not had a guest wind-player in Flagstaff (and this is covering many top-level players on all woodwind and brass instruments) who did not perceive new challenges in their playing at this altitude.