national encyclopedia

[Kevin Hendrick]

... what would you guy's suggest to be written about the euph in such a brief form?

How limited are we for space? If it needs to be that short, something along the lines of

"euphonium = brass instrument, tenor member of the tuba family"

might work. If more space is available, you might add

"similar in size and appearance to a baritone horn, but with a more mellow sound".

I'm sure there are other things that could be said (given the room), and probably better ways of wording what I've written above.

Best of luck!

[KarlMarx]

http://norsktubaforum.1go.dk/phpBB2/index.php

Carolus Anbefalius

[Kevin Hendrick]

Would there be any english/american encyclopedia that has a good article about the euphonium?

Here's a link to the Wikipedia article on the euphonium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphonium

[Rick Denney]

"euphonium= brass instrument, identical to or a variant of a baritone horn"

I think it's accurate, if you are talking about a "baritone" horn as the term has been used for decades in America (NOT England), and if the writer has any reasonable expectation that the reader will know what a baritone horn is.

I'm curious as to the listing under baritone. If it says "brass instrument, identical to or a variant of the euphonium" then book-burning might be in order.

But if it says "brass instrument of conical design, pitched in Bb or C 58-64 Hz, with a tubing bore ranging between 14 and 16 mm and a bell diameter ranging from 250-310 mm. A tenor member of the tuba family. Not to be confused with an English Baritone," then the definition above is quite accurate.

Furthermore, it denies the illusory difference between what have been called baritones in American and what are now called euphoniums, and to me that's a good thing.

Rick "who thinks English-style baritones are the exception, not the rule" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Here's a link to the Wikipedia article on the euphonium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphonium

I think this article is quite good, except that it lumps the English baritone into the same class. Describing its difference as being related to a saxhorn is a confusion--all upright-valve instruments are related to saxhorns. The English baritone is more like a tenor trombone, and the bariton/euphonium/tenor tuba is more like a bass trombone. Had they made their comparison of euphoniums with a bass trombone, and then called the English baritone the conical equivalent of a tenor trombone, they would have hit the mark, it seems to me.

Rick "who thinks these terms are confusing because their players use them in confusing ways" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Since I play bass trombone and euphonium, it seems to me equating euphoniums to bass trombones might be a disservice to both.

I didn't think I was that unclear.

I meant, of course, that a euphonium is the conical equivalent of the bass trombone, while the English baritone is the conical equivalent of the tenor trombone. It's a good way to illustrate the difference between a thin instrument and a fat instrument that are pitched the same way but still have different sounds and different roles. You know, like an analogy.

Rick "who never said a euphonium sounded like a trombone" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

I meant, of course, that a euphonium is the conical equivalent of the bass trombone, while the English baritone is the conical equivalent of the tenor trombone.

Now is that the modern big (0.550") bore trombone, medium (0.525") bore, or the more classic bore (0.500") ?

What was the typical bass bone bore in the 50's? I read somewhere is was about the ame as todays big tennor horns.

[Matt G]

Conn has been making .562 bore bas trombones for quite a while. I believe that they probably date back to the 50's maybe even the 40's.

Does anyone know when Bach rolled out the 50B series? I believe that one is fairly old also, but may only date back to the 60's.

Holton has been making the TR-181 (I think that is the number) for quite a long time as well.

[Rick Denney]

An analogy is only of use as an illustrative device if the things used in the analogy are better understood than the items being illustrated.

Go back to the definitions about which I was commenting. Wikipedia made the connection between euphoniums and (tenor) trombones. I merely corrected their analogy.

Okay, folks, raise your hands. How many of you know the difference between a bass trombone and a tenor trombone? I thought so. How many agree with my definition of "baritone"? I'll bet that some hands when down. Thus, using trombones as an analogy for this audience seems reasonable.

Rick "who thinks the instruments define the words, not the other way around" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Respectfully disagree. Though the analogy works fine for the tubenet crowd it would merely sow confusion placed in the wikipedia without a substantial enlargement of the section. Since an analogy is designed to clarify and save verbiage it would not serve its intended purpose. Again- works fine here in Tubeland.
Mssr le Bloke, saxophobia aside, is on the money. The instruments define the words, not vice versa. Feel free to take a walk down history lane and nod to the old guys in the village brass band of merry old England but look at the catalogs and admire Bloke for hitting this one dead on.

And where did I disagree with Bloke?

The only instrument I took out of the euphonium=baritone equation is the English baritone, which has a MUCH smaller bore and an 8" bell...sorta like the difference between a tenor trombone and a bass trombone.

As far as using a trombone analogy, have it your own way. But take it to Wikipedia, not me (I'm assuming it was me to whom you were disagreeing.)

Rick "who has uncharacteristically reached his limit on pedanticism" Denney

[MaryAnn]

As far as using a trombone analogy, have it your own way. But take it to Wikipedia, not me (I'm assuming it was me to whom you were disagreeing.)
Rick "who has uncharacteristically reached his limit on pedanticism" Denney

then can I have some fun? I would have said, pendantically, that

"I'm assuming it was I with whom you were disagreeing."

So there.

MA

[tubeast]

To my ears and eyes, there is a certain inconsistency in the naming of instruments, anyway. Why is it, that in Germany there are those oval horns called Tenorhorn and Bariton, that are the IDENTICAL instruments of different bores, while there are 3/4 and 6/4 kinds of instruments both claiming to be tubas ? When you read the MW homepage carefully and go to the tenor/bariton pages, you´ll even learn that they are making instruments that completely mix up that terminology.

To my experience, there is a definite difference in tonal quality between a Tenorhorn/Bariton and a Euphonium (German spelling is intended here), just as there is a difference between trumpet, cornet and flugelhorn. That difference was clearly audible in Budapest to many of you, when there was ONE soloist performing on Tenorhorn and a whole bunch of soloists playing euph. Otherwise I´d suggest to go with "If it sounds the same, call it the same" no matter what kind of valves or shape that horn has.
If you don´t agree, let´s make suggestions as to naming all those different types of tubas.
Hans