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What are the differences between the two aside from the 4th valve and the student versus professional labels? I've got a great lead on a 621 that I've played numerous times before. I'll probably follow through with the deal but it got me thinking about the differences between the two horns. Thanks for your input.

i have access to four 103, and I have played three 621 and own a 621. The 621 is far superior. The valve layout is different. If find the 621 more free blowing and a bit fuller. I prefer the cc versions but my BBb is great. Only complaint is that spit really collects in the 2nd valve on the 621.

unless i am mistaken the bore size of the 103 is smaller.

Oh what??

We have to be sensitive to the model 103's self esteem??

You could see if Dan Schultz would sell you the four-valve version of the 103 he built himself:

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Jose the tuba player wrote:unless i am mistaken the bore size of the 103 is smaller.

I don't know about the other Yamaha tubas in question but the bore size of the YBB-103 is small... 16.5mm or about .648".

The 4V one I built is a good horn but does not have very much presence in an ensemble. It's great for steet-corner caroling where I don't want to stand with or haul around a larger horn or sousa but there's no way to carry an ensemble with it.

Art suggest that a larger 4th valve (rotor) in the bugle after the valve section might be better than a small piston but I think what really hurts this horn more than anything is the LONG leadpipe with a straight bore main tuning slide. If I ever decide to build another one... I might try a different approach. However... that's sort of unlikely because parts horns are scarce and Yamaha doesn't make parts for them any more. The best thing about the horn is that you don't have to shop for specific pistons. The three of them interchange.

Would you say the Wisemann DTU-510 is a faithful clone of the Yamaha ybb-621??

Where does the, uh, "classic", small front action Weril C/Bb fit in this comparison?