Pedal Notes

[Mark]

Does anybody know of some tuba recordings with notable low passages in them?

There are a couple of recordings with some very low notes, but there are so many factors that influence the final playback (mic, mic placement, recording equipment, reproduction equipment, playback equipment, etc.); so that what you hear will probably not be anything like the original note sounded live.

It's sort of like what's said about rattle snakes -- when you hear a really fine tuba player play a pedal tone, you'll know it. But, it has to be live.

[imperialbari]

The lesson learned from decades of bassboning also is applicable to tubas:

Make the pedal notes sound as similar as possible to the notes above the open pedals.

But don't resort to anything like moving the mouthpiece from its contact points on your lips. That will render the pedal range non-useable in faster technical contexts.

The whole game, like with any other register, is a matter of the shape of the square sections of your mouth cavity.

The parameters to be juggled are foremostly the 2D position of the lower jaw (up-down position and forward stretch) plus the shape of the tongue.

All very hard to describe in exact terms. The mental remedy is to think in the sound of vowels.

My native tongue is considered to be among the hardest on this planet to master for non-aboriginals. But in wind activated musical instruments we have the benefit of being able to pronounce around 40 or so distinct vowels, which is said to be far more than most other languages.

I don't think that it is a coincidence, that the woodwind most dependent on vowel control, has a Dane as its non-plus ultra virtuoso. Michaela Petri on recorder.

Vowel control was a major element of my own teaching, but I will refrain from giving any specifics on a non-Danish board, especially an English spoken one, as those islanders skipped any human logic in vowel handling. At least seen/heard trough the considerably more stable minds of us continentals. But then the Brits may have had their reputation compromised by some of their former colonies maintaining to speak English.

Klaus,
who's recorders only make up a third of his brasses, when it comes to numbers. But who still has 21 recorders in 7 sizes.

[Jeff Miller]

Try recording yourself playing something down in the low valve and pedal range. The pitch shift it up by an octave on a computer or variable speed tape recorder and see whether it sounds like you're playing "normal" notes.

I try to make my pedals sound like an extension of my non-fundamental registers.

Jeff Miller

[CJ Krause]

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[Jeff Miller]

Try recording yourself playing something down in the low valve and pedal range. The pitch shift it up by an octave on a computer or variable speed tape recorder and see whether it sounds like you're playing "normal" notes.

I try to make my pedals sound like an extension of my non-fundamental registers.

Jeff Miller

Hi,

I forgot to mention that the other side of this approach is to make the extended valve register (i.e. stuff that requires 4th and 5th valves) sound as much like the pedals as possible!

A good 5 minute-a-day exercise is to pull your valve slides so that all valves down will produce the same pitch as your open pedal. Then, play the pedal and slowly press the valves in. Breathe, and play the all-valved note and slowly release the valves to return to the pedal.

Repeat several times, but halve the time you spend on the valve smear each time you repeat the cycle. After about 4 reps, you'll be slurring between the pedal and valved notes.

Try to keep the character of the sound as consistent as possible throughout the exercise.
This is also a good exercise for smoothing out slurs between other open notes and the valved notes just above them.


Jeff

[wooliteeuph]

To reply to this original post, are there any upstream players who are very strong pedal hitters (particularly euphoniums). I'm only asking this because I am an upstream player due to the fact that I play at the top of the mouthpiece. My current teacher is trying to to help me with that, but that would force me to change to being a downstream player.This makes it especially hard because I actually have a playing gig (8 out of the 12 months) and that would make it hard for me to blend that in with my performing routine. I don't know. I guess instead of asking a question I'm actually complaining about the way I play.

[tubapress]

How does one really know that their pedal notes sound like they’re supposed to? Has anybody published a guide for developing excellent tone quality in the extreme low register? Does anybody know of some tuba recordings with notable low passages in them?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom,

Morgan

One of the best ways I've found to develop this register is to play Rochut-type lyrical etudes in octaves with another tubist. One plays the etude down one octave while the other plays it down 2 octaves. This helps with pitch and balance. It allows the player to relax and concentrate on what s/he hears instead of what the "technique" is for producing the pedals.

As far as a great book, I have 2 recommendations:

1) Snedecor - Low Etudes for Tuba - very good music that focuses on that low register. Available through most major music stores.

2) Wrobleski - 48 Low Register Studies - focuses on extreme low register and pushes the individual to new acrobatic and lyrical heights in that register. Published by Chicken Scratch Press and can be purchased via Windsong Press

[CJ Krause]

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[Jeff Miller]

I am an upstream player due to the fact that I play at the top of the mouthpiece. My current teacher is trying to to help me with that, but that would force me to change to being a downstream player.This makes it especially hard because I actually have a playing gig (8 out of the 12 months) and that would make it hard for me to blend that in with my performing routine.

I think if you approach it in a logical, structured way, there's no reason why you can't learn to use the downstream embouchure as well as the upstream. Think of both embouchures as just more stuff in your bag of tricks, like alternate fingerings.

Better yet, think about the sound and let the embouchure sort itself out along the way.

When I play bass trombone, I occasionally will find myself interchanging the two embouchures depending on what the character of the sound needs to be at that moment. I don't think about it on the tuba at all.

I would suggest something along the following: Starting in a comfortable register that is definitely in your "upstream" area, play a descending scale, holding each note 5 or 10 seconds. Concentrate on actively keeping the "up" embouchure as you get lower, regardless of how horrible it sounds. Keep playing until you simply cannot produce a sound any more.

Then, start on a lower note that is definitely in the "downstream" register, and do the same thing going up. Once again, ignore the quality of the sound and keep going until you cannot produce a tone any longer.

Do this for maybe 5 minutes every day, and then don't think about it again until the next time you do it. It's the thinking about it that will screw you up.

I think Gene Pokorny referred to a similar sort of thing in his Army Conference address; he was speaking about extending a regular embouchure into the pedal register.

I'm working on a method book; email me if you're interested in seeing some of the excercises.

Interestingly, I've always used the word "embrouchure" but when spell-checking this post, found that the correct word is actually "embouchure". Huh.

[TubaKen]

I lay my tongue flat on the bottom of the cup of the mouthpiece, lay my teeth flat on my tongue and move my teeth back and forth to change pitch

i rest the bottom of the mouthpiece against where my lower teeth and gum meet and my lower lip is under the rim.

Wow! That's a new one.
Anybody here use the lower lip only in their pedal register? I used to able to play down to pedal G and no fiurther, until I saw Bobo demonstrate in a master class how he used only the lower lip when he played pedal G and below. Using this embouchure makes it easy to play all the pedal notes.

[CJ Krause]

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[Leland]

Wow! That's a new one.
Anybody here use the lower lip only in their pedal register?

*raises hand*

I don't even know when I started doing it, or whether I came up with it on my own, read about it, heard someone describe it, or was taught to do it. I will say that I was both entertained and highly relieved when Pokorny demonstrated it at the Army conference (relieved because, if he says it's OK to do it, then I haven't been screwing up as much as I thought!).