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I just got some work done on the 3/4 Meinl-Weston BBb tuba I recently purchased and was wondering if I should go with my Yamaha 67C4 (shallow) or PT-42 (deep) mouthpiece. Does it make much difference due to the smaller bore size? Should I use my PT-42 that I've been playing for the past 15 years and am comfortable with or would using the shallower Yamaha work better for a smaller horn? I also have a Miraphone TU29 which I think is deeper than the Perantucci. Thanks!

You should try them all out and then tell us!

A few years ago I sat next to a gentleman in community band who had a 3/4 tuba, a King if I recall correctly, and he tried several different mouthpieces, including the Bach 18 and 24AW. All made the tuba sound grainy. I suggested the conventional Conn Helleberg 120S to get something with a deeper cup that was not too expensive that would give good tone. His tone, intonation and response improved markedly. The inherent graininess of the lower register was moderated, if not eliminated.

My peashooter does well with a Miraphone Rose Orchestra.

What mouthpiece do you normally play? I'd try something with the same rim diameter so you won't have to use a markedly different embouchure on that horn.

iiipopes wrote:A few years ago I sat next to a gentleman in community band who had a 3/4 tuba, a King if I recall correctly, and he tried several different mouthpieces, including the Bach 18 and 24AW. All made the tuba sound grainy. I suggested the conventional Conn Helleberg 120S to get something with a deeper cup that was not too expensive that would give good tone. His tone, intonation and response improved markedly. The inherent graininess of the lower register was moderated, if not eliminated.

At one time, I owned a King 1140. I had access to a few mouthpieces including a Bach 25, 18 and 7 as well as a Helleberg 120. The 25 was the easiest MP to get an acceptable tone but the 18 and Helleberg had a fuller tone and responded better than the 25 after putting in a couple of weeks of practice on the horn. I eventually settled on the Helleberg because, overall, I preferred the performance over the 18. The 18 would have worked fine also but I just preferred the funnel cup sound of the HB over the bowl cup sound of the 18. The 7 was like swimming in the ocean compared to the smaller MPs.

I use a 67C4 on my 621 Bb and it works well. I tried quite a few other mouthpieces but that one worked best for me.

Listen to the recording of Arnold Jacobs lecture at the 1973 T.U.B.A. Symposium. In it, he does quite a lengthy discussion on mouthpieces and instruments, and how they combine to produce various tone colors. Using that as a guide, think about how you want to sound on the 3/4 and then experiment with different mouthpieces. The only way you will find the right one for you is to try several (or more) out and see how they work. As long as you keep them in good condition, the mouthpieces you try that obviously don't work can be sold on this website. I have seen many people receive 75% of their original cost when they sell mouthpieces on the For Sale board. This way, you can try more mouthpieces without having to invest a huge amount of $$. Also, many companies have very liberal return policies that give you several weeks to try out the mouthpiece and only charge a small restocking fee and return shipping, which is pretty cheap if you use the small Priority Mail flat rate box.

Interesting most of the suggestions so far have leaned towards deeper mouthpieces. I'll have to try my PT-42 and TU29 when I get the horn back from the shop this week.

Never tried a Helleberg before, guess I'll have to add that to my "bucket list"!

happyroman wrote:Listen to the recording of Arnold Jacobs lecture at the 1973 T.U.B.A. Symposium. In it, he does quite a lengthy discussion on mouthpieces and instruments, and how they combine to produce various tone colors. Using that as a guide, think about how you want to sound on the 3/4 and then experiment with different mouthpieces. The only way you will find the right one for you is to try several (or more) out and see how they work. As long as you keep them in good condition, the mouthpieces you try that obviously don't work can be sold on this website. I have seen many people receive 75% of their original cost when they sell mouthpieces on the For Sale board. This way, you can try more mouthpieces without having to invest a huge amount of $$. Also, many companies have very liberal return policies that give you several weeks to try out the mouthpiece and only charge a small restocking fee and return shipping, which is pretty cheap if you use the small Priority Mail flat rate box.

Where do we go to hear this?

Heavy_Metal wrote:

happyroman wrote:Listen to the recording of Arnold Jacobs lecture at the 1973 T.U.B.A. Symposium. In it, he does quite a lengthy discussion on mouthpieces and instruments, and how they combine to produce various tone colors. Using that as a guide, think about how you want to sound on the 3/4 and then experiment with different mouthpieces. The only way you will find the right one for you is to try several (or more) out and see how they work. As long as you keep them in good condition, the mouthpieces you try that obviously don't work can be sold on this website. I have seen many people receive 75% of their original cost when they sell mouthpieces on the For Sale board. This way, you can try more mouthpieces without having to invest a huge amount of $$. Also, many companies have very liberal return policies that give you several weeks to try out the mouthpiece and only charge a small restocking fee and return shipping, which is pretty cheap if you use the small Priority Mail flat rate box.

Where do we go to hear this?

http://www.chisham.com/tips/index.html" target="_blank

Thanks- and I like the term "piccolo tuba".......

Polkahero wrote:Never tried a Helleberg before, guess I'll have to add that to my "bucket list"!

Yes, indeed. I think of it as the classic American tuba mouthpiece, though I'm mostly making that up. The standard Helleberg for the last 50 years or so has been the Conn 120, which is a bit larger than its predecessors, which are supposed to have been closer to the current Conn 7B.

Perhaps not coincidentally, if you buy my "classic American mouthpiece" premise, some players think the Helleberg style is more suited to piston tubas, and rotary valves work better with more of a bowl shape. Or it could be about leadpipe length, which is sort of related since rotary valves often means a longer leadpipe.

Polkahero wrote: Never tried a Helleberg before, guess I'll have to add that to my "bucket list"!

Never tried a Helleberg?!? You gotta - Augustus is rolling in his grave! Seriously though, it's a great mouthpiece. If you want to go cheap, try a Kellyberg, they work almost as well as a Conn for a lot less $$. http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank"
I only use mine in cold weather, but it really is a good way to give it a try.

Pete (the Tubatoad)

Tubatoad wrote:

Polkahero wrote: Never tried a Helleberg before, guess I'll have to add that to my "bucket list"!

Never tried a Helleberg?!? You gotta - Augustus is rolling in his grave! Seriously though, it's a great mouthpiece. If you want to go cheap, try a Kellyberg, they work almost as well as a Conn for a lot less $$. http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank"
I only use mine in cold weather, but it really is a good way to give it a try.

Pete (the Tubatoad)

Hmmm, that mp is listed at $91 whereas the Conn Helleberg is listed at $79. Not really seeing the cost savings there!

Edit: Sorry, I guess you're referring to a plastic model.

Plastic is $34

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmtuba/index.asp" target="_blank

Depending on what is comfortable for you, 'MP to Tuba' is often a balancing act to achieve a certain fullness sound native of a larger horn and the flexibility and response of the smaller. Smaller tubas also tend to NOT have the harmonic (or overtone) complex of their larger cousins. A larger MP will help to achieve a richer sound.

I recall in the days of the Sousa Band, Arthur Pryor was the feature trombone virtuoso. He played on what we today commonly call a "pea shooter" (very small bore.) He found he could achieve much more flexibility, range, and richness or complexity of tone with a significantly larger mouthpiece. This was due to a larger mouthpiece allowing the horn to accept more wind support without overblowing and also allowing more facial tissue inside the cup to vibrate. It's pretty much the same issue with small and large tubas.

On the larger models, I find it is also important to consider the size of the throat. An older Bach 18 or Conn 2 will have a much smaller throat than the newer Conn 120 or the other more modern Helleberg knockoffs. This will contribute to a bit more resistance. That can be good or problematic. It depends.

Whatever is the choice, time to adapt is crucial. Also when trying out MPs, switching back and forth is usually winds up being more of a 'comparison of how the chops react from coming from the previous one'. Play on a MP for a long time, days or weeks even. It can feel completely different depending on whether you are fatigued and/or not warmed up . Also, beware. How it feels can be misleading in relation to how it sounds. If you get the sound you want and the MP is not severely uncomfortable, it might be worth taking the time and just getting used to it.

I tend to be a MP junkie, but come back to my main piece which is a Helleberg, with a euroshank, fairly large throat and sportsing relatively flat rim. Dick Barth, if you are reading, it's the stock piece on the BMBs. For me it does what I ask. Love it. If you can find one that is a good all purpose one, learn to use it effectively. You will need others for special situations, but that everyday MP should be a careful investment.

PaulMaybery wrote: He played on what we today commonly call a "pea shooter" (very small bore.)

and here it is...

along with his mouthpiece...


and a different view...


Pete

I have two 3/4 Jupiter tubas at my elementary school (#348?) They came with a Jupiter copy of the Bach 24AW. Now I know many people on this list do not like this mouthpiece, but the huge bowl on it really gives that little tuba a great sound. I often wondered if they ever made a 24A without the Wide rim.

ken k