Willson dealers in US?

[bort]

Curious... which stores in the US are Willson dealers?

[eupho]

Dillon's, Baltimore Brass

[bort]

Ah, okay. I only saw a couple of models listed on their sites (mostly Euphs), so I wasn't sure if they were actually dealers or not.

Thanks!

[Douglas]

I think Tuba Exchange also sells them.

[Dan Schultz]

Does Adams own the Willson name now? Seems like I recall seeing something about Willson closing a while back.

[bort]

Interesting, I had not heard that before. I know there's some kind of Adams/Hirsbrunner relationship (or something!), but not sure about Willson. I believe you can still buy them new...?

[jpetty24]

As far as I know I've not heard anything of Adams obtaining Wilson, but could be very possible. Hisbrunner on the other hand... Adams now has their tooling for Tuba/Euphs. The do not use the hirsbrunner tooling for the euphs or their design, they are entirely Adams horns, but the Tubas are based off of hirsbrunners and use their tooling.

[Dan Schultz]

As far as I know I've not heard anything of Adams obtaining Wilson, but could be very possible. Hisbrunner on the other hand... Adams now has their tooling for Tuba/Euphs. The do not use the hirsbrunner tooling for the euphs or their design, they are entirely Adams horns, but the Tubas are based off of hirsbrunners and use their tooling.

Ahhh.... I think that is correct. It must've been Hirsbrunner I was thinking of.

I could go back and delete my original post but then the last two posts wouldn't make any sense.

Sorry for the alarm, all.

[Ferguson]

In simplest confusing language, Adams now owns the means (tooling and other parts makers) to build the components for Hirsbrunner, and they also own the right to use Hirsbrunner tooling and design for their own tubas. Hirsbrunner is still the same, but when he retires, his designs will continue to exist through the next generation and the future.
F

[joh_tuba]

I think the more interesting question is who is willing to stock Willson?

A quick look at the big vendor websites:
Dillon Music: Willson euphonium in stock. Could likely special order anything you want or perhaps they are waiting on a fresh shipment.
Baltimore Brass: Three *used* tubas and four new euphoniums
WWBW: Only lists the Willson Eb as 'available soon'. I was under the impression they had ceased stocking Willson. Pleased to see I was wrong.
Horn Guys: No mention of Willson
Tuba Exchange: Lots of manufacturer logos but NOT Willson on the opening screen. However, the Willson 3200 F tuba *is* available for worldwide shipping in silver or lacquer. My gut says they don't stock anything Willson and place an order from the factory after receipt of funds and have it shipped directly to the buyer. Any firsthand knowledge?

Based on the above survey it's likely that there is not a single *new* stock Willson tuba in the entire country.

[bort]

Well, for what these tubas cost brand new (and for their relative popularity compared to Miraphone or Meinl Weston), I'm not surprised to see so few in stock. I'm also not sure how many tubas Willson makes, and if many/most/all are special order? No clue, but there are many manufacturers for which you won't find a pile of tubas just sitting around ready to be delivered. Willson is just one of those companies.

The question about who is a dealer is more like "Which companies have the ability to order Willson tubas?"

[Ferguson]

Willson is distributed in the US by Getzen. We sold one by request a few years back. (Salesman hat on...) When I buy European instruments, I prefer to import them myself. It's typically faster (air freight vs. ocean) and it's cheaper without a distributor in the way to take a cut. Not all retailers like this. A retailer has to arrange a good customers broker, they usually have to prepay, and they're at the whim of the currency exchange rates.

A US distributor can offer local stock ready to go, payment terms, parts, warranty and returns, and stable pricing in US dollars. A distributor will also do local advertising and show displays. But the price is higher and if the exchange rate somehow gets better, the prices do not go down. I see some benefits to a distributor, but my issue is that they tend to not have any stock of the instruments they are distributing. I confess to not being current on Getzen's Willson stock, so I may stand corrected, but my experience with them and others is that when you (customer) want it, I order it, then the distributor orders it from the maker, then the instrument is built, then it waits for a full container to ship over here. Buffet works like that. It's maddening. These distributors want the profit and exclusivity, but they don't seem to want to put any skin in the game. (My opinion, not supported by science.) It wasn't always that way. I used to email my B&S tuba sales rep in Germany, and when he said, "Yes, we have it in stock", I'd arrange an air pickup a day or two later. It was easy. The old pre-Buffet B&S USA distributor, American Way Marketing (Tubadome), was the best. They had almost everything B&S/MW/Hoyer in stock and would bring the stuff in by air for fastest service.

Part of the problem is the diminutive size of the euphonium and tuba market. I've written here before, any reseller who keeps one instrument in stock hopes to sell at least 3 or 4 of them a year to make the investment worthwhile. We sell about one Eb tuba a year, so I'm not sure how many to stock. I'd like to have about 5 here at all times because they're my favorite tuba, but not all tubists agree, so sales reflect that. With a limited budget, one has to go with the best sellers, which is BBb, CC, and F, and not from Willson.

And what of the new crop of Asian instruments? I'm sure sales of those are taking some significant part of the European instrument market. Or they will. We don't deal in those much as they're not interesting to me, but with every Asian maker offering a compensating euphonium, what's the future for a local dealer who could or might stock pricey European euphoniums by several prestigious makers? I truly don't know. This business is very small, and I don't have that handle on the market.

We have a web page and prices posted for Willson euphoniums on the new Horn Guys website which should launch next week. It's down at the moment for testing. There will be some fanfare when it launches, as I should have done this over a decade ago.

Best,
Steve Ferguson
/disclaimer:
//tubas
///I sell 'em

[Tom]

Well, for what these tubas cost brand new (and for their relative popularity compared to Miraphone or Meinl Weston), I'm not surprised to see so few in stock. I'm also not sure how many tubas Willson makes, and if many/most/all are special order? No clue, but there are many manufacturers for which you won't find a pile of tubas just sitting around ready to be delivered. Willson is just one of those companies.

The question about who is a dealer is more like "Which companies have the ability to order Willson tubas?"

You're about to find very few Meinl Weston / B&S / Buffet Group tubas sitting in stock anywhere, too, and they are among the largest and currently most popular manufacturer out there.

Buffet is now requiring dealers to purchase instruments outright that they wish to have in stock in their own stores. This has not always been how they have conducted business and will seriously impact where you can go to try tubas and buy them on the spot. It means that even stores that move a lot of tubas will need to invest serious cash into having inventory on hand and will (inevitably) result in dealers only electing to stock the most popular models. The days of walking into one of the well known brass shops and seeing multiples of every model on hand are pretty much over for Buffet Group tubas unless that dealer wants to invest a substantial amount of money into keeping the inventory on hand for a relatively small group of potential customers.

I have been told several of the dealers that handle Buffet Group tubas in the US (and there are only a handful to start with) are going to transition to special ordering them only and will only have stock on hand when a buyer rejects an instrument that they have ordered. And getting a Buffet Group tuba by special order will take anywhere from 4-6 months, plus it will be the only one to pick from - accept it or reject it.

Jacksonville, FL is where all the Buffet Group tubas will be now. It will be a showroom where you can go and try them (and I've been told buy them off the floor, if you want one). A "company store," if you will. This may eventually mean that a setup like this will be the future of 'tuba stores' and that dealers will simply facilitate sales and special orders of instrument picked out in Jacksonville or ordered sight-unseen.

http://www.buffet-group.com/en/content/our-locations

[tofu]

Jacksonville, FL is where all the Buffet Group tubas will be now. It will be a showroom where you can go and try them (and I've been told buy them off the floor, if you want one). A "company store," if you will. This may eventually mean that a setup like this will be the future of 'tuba stores' and that dealers will simply facilitate sales and special orders of instrument picked out in Jacksonville or ordered sight-unseen.

http://www.buffet-group.com/en/content/our-locations

You would think it would make more sense to have a showroom like this in Chicago than Jacksonville which would make it more accessible to a larger amount of the USA and much closer to the main populated areas of Canada.

[Tom]

Jacksonville, FL is where all the Buffet Group tubas will be now. It will be a showroom where you can go and try them (and I've been told buy them off the floor, if you want one). A "company store," if you will. This may eventually mean that a setup like this will be the future of 'tuba stores' and that dealers will simply facilitate sales and special orders of instrument picked out in Jacksonville or ordered sight-unseen.

http://www.buffet-group.com/en/content/our-locations

You would think it would make more sense to have a showroom like this in Chicago than Jacksonville which would make it more accessible to a larger amount of the USA and much closer to the main populated areas of Canada.

Jacksonville is a port city set up for container ships and international import/export operations. There is a nearby international airport for air freight operations, too. I also hear that Jacksonville commercial real estate is relatively cheap (I don't know, just what I'm hearing). That said, I agree with you...it's not the most geographically logical choice as far as being centrally located within the United States.

[Matt Walters]

About why every dealer doesn't have every tuba in stock, the short answer is "The quickest way to go out of business is to have everything in stock."
I've learned a lot from Mr. Dillon about the business end of tubas and I try to put some of his practices into the business of running my own household budget. "Opportunity Cost" and "Turnover" are tied into cash flow which is just as important as profit. If $10,000 is the cost for a tuba that will sell for only $11,000 after it has sat on the sales floor being "tested" for 6 months, that same $10,000 could be invested in 5 trumpets that will generate $200 profit each but within a 2 month cycle. Buy and re-sale 2 more batches of 5 trumpets in the same 6 months as that one tuba and you understand why not every music store wants to stock a slow selling tuba that will only make you one third the money. Next week's payroll is just sitting on the floor. You must always watch your cash flow.
So...a business has to run a balance of risk versus reward. If someone wants a very popular tuba that I would typically stock anyway, I don't ask for a deposit. i.e. "If you don't want that Eastman CC or Miraphone CC188-5V tuba, the next person in line will." If you are adamant about wanting something that I would stock but I am overstocked on something very similar, I'm going to ask for a small deposit to make sure you are serious before I tie up more inventory because the horn and deposit would still be returnable. If you are asking for a left handed sewer-flute that I don't stock, don't want to stock, and nobody has asked for one in the past year or two, I will insist on a 50% "non-refundable" deposit prior to ordering it.
If the consumer votes with his/her wallet (myself included) for lower prices, then the business has to cast their vote through inventory control.

[Dan Schultz]

About why every dealer doesn't have every tuba in stock, the short answer is "The quickest way to go out of business is to have everything in stock." ....

+1

I'm just about through buying great old horns and spending countless hours (and dollars) overhauling them just to have them sit around and gather dust while young tubists flock in droves to buy the 'bright and shiny' stuff from The Orient.

I don't sell anything new but have to sympathize with retailers sticking all of their operating capital into inventory just to see it take a beating in the showroom.

This ain't an easy business and sometimes even a worse hobby.

[Ferguson]

+1 to Matt's comment.

Dave at Getzen said they try to stock 6 Willson tuba models plus various euphoniums. They have most of these in stock now:

3200XLS Large F Tuba
3200XSS Small F Tuba
3200C-S COMPACT F Tuba
3100S Erickson BBb Tuba 5/4
3050S 5/4 CC Tuba
3400S Erickson Eb Tuba 5/4
Euphs none

They had, but just sold...
3400C-S COMPACT Eb Tuba 4/4

Prices are the same as 2014.

-F