reversed valve tuning slide?

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TheGoyWonder
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reversed valve tuning slide?

Post by TheGoyWonder »

Not to be confused with reversed leadpipe trumpet or any tuning slide made in the same style as a reversed leadpipe trumpet.
A lot of people say they "reversed" a valve tuning slide so it pulls from the top, usually talking about the ubiquitous American front piston design where the valve slides originally pull only from the bottom.

I wasn't able to figure out how big an undertaking this is, or even imagine how it works unless the bottom slide and the top non-sliding crook are the same width. I might like to get an old American front piston tuba and not suffer from tragic 3-valve intonation, so what's the deal with reversing a valve tuning slide? What might it cost?
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Dan Schultz
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Re: reversed valve tuning slide?

Post by Dan Schultz »

TheGoyWonder wrote:Not to be confused with reversed leadpipe trumpet or any tuning slide made in the same style as a reversed leadpipe trumpet.
A lot of people say they "reversed" a valve tuning slide so it pulls from the top, usually talking about the ubiquitous American front piston design where the valve slides originally pull only from the bottom.

I wasn't able to figure out how big an undertaking this is, or even imagine how it works unless the bottom slide and the top non-sliding crook are the same width. I might like to get an old American front piston tuba and not suffer from tragic 3-valve intonation, so what's the deal with reversing a valve tuning slide? What might it cost?
On every 1240/41 King tuba that comes through here I move the 1st tuning slide to the top. No... the slides don't have to be the same width. Just take the crook off the lower slide and reassemble the 'legs' to the upper crook along with the outer tubes. It's actually a very simple and easy to do conversion. It makes me wonder why it took HN White/King so long to do it in production.
Dan Schultz
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Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
TheGoyWonder
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Re: reversed valve tuning slide?

Post by TheGoyWonder »

Just valves, #1 and maybe #3. Of the design of most Olds/King/Conn front piston tubas. Same design is also seen in 100% of Olds/King/Conn front piston euphs if it's still not clear.

I think I get it, you take the legs from the slide and use the crook to make a fixed turn at the bottom. What attaches to the original top, fixed crook?
a. Inner tube from the original slide. One outer tube from the slide goes on the valve.
b. Outer tube from the original slide, and the inners get mounted to the horn. Ends up like a trumpet 3rd valve slide.
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iiipopes
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Re: reversed valve tuning slide?

Post by iiipopes »

As I have posted in many other threads, I also do this to the upper loop of Conn and similar souzy 1st valve slides so I can "ride throttle" on the usual 1+3 and other culprits: slightly shorten the entire loop so you can push to get 5th partial C is in tune, then make the inner slides as long as possible to pull to bring multi-valve notes into tune. The goal is to get it to where 1st valve Eb and Ab ride about 1/2 to 5/8 inch out.
Jupiter JTU1110, RT-82.
"Real" Conn 36K.
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iiipopes
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Re: reversed valve tuning slide?

Post by iiipopes »

Bloke makes a great point about the finish of the instrument. It's not going to look consistent after plumbing work. Now, for me, on the old instruments I had the modifications done to, it was definitely worth it in the gains of intonation and tonal adjustments, and, well, let's just say there wasn't much lacquer left to lose! But for a new or newer instrument, YMMV.
Jupiter JTU1110, RT-82.
"Real" Conn 36K.
TheGoyWonder
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Re: reversed valve tuning slide?

Post by TheGoyWonder »

I have a throwaway American euphonium so I took a stab. Really good compression and a pullable 3rd slide, so maybe I shouldn't have messed with it if there's demand for decent .56" valvesets without the pullable 1st slide. Just a smashed upright bell, which I did get basically bell-shaped but is still ugly as sin due to wrinkly bell throat.

Some of 1st valve tubing just slid apart under the torch, but I have an outer slide leg clinging to the lower side of 1st valve. I tried alternate heating and cooling, and heating more severely. Any tips? It's hard to pull on it, and I know better than to try to grab it with needlenose pliers or a visegrip. I've just been grabbing by hand with double cowhide gloves, trying not to singe them and not getting much grip.
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