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If you'd be putting a valve (rotor) before the valve cluster right on the leadpipe what would be your preference- how many steps down in pitch change? Or not even steps, maybe 1/4 tone lowering would be beneficial for all the sharp notes.

If you look at a G50 or a YCB/YFB 621 they both have the rotor in the lead pipe, the G50 has two options for slides, a half step or a long 1st.

The most common approach for a flat-step 5th valve circuit is to make it the same length as the existing 1st valve circuit with a good bit of slide 'pull'.

Dan, You always "tinker" with things so what do you think the best combination would be regardless of what is being offered in the current models or maybe what's available is the most efficient configuration. If the trigger would be 1 whole step down plus some- on a C tuba would this make it a Bb tuba without any serious ramifications in general pitch? Is the 5 valve used only for those "issue" notes ? I have the 4 valve yamaha ycb-621 and I was thinking about trading it for a Bb horn but if I can add the trigger it would be more cost effective.

Why there? My preference has always been to put the 5th after the valve cluster. That seems to always turn out better for some yet unknown reason.

Sam, I'm not a tech but it seems to be so easy to install it on the lead pipe with your thumb right there easy to push the lever.

Somebody just told me the YFB-621 has a factory trigger on the leadpipe and the bore is exactly the same as YCB-621. To my understanding Yamaha also provided the f tuba with a slide extension from 1/2 step plus to whole step plus. Maybe anybody with f tuba could confirm this?

Greg Lecewicz wrote:Somebody just told me the YFB-621 has a factory trigger on the leadpipe and the bore is exactly the same as YCB-621. To my understanding Yamaha also provided the f tuba with a slide extension from 1/2 step plus to whole step plus. Maybe anybody with f tuba could confirm this?

I have that model F. It plays exceptionally well. The catch is that the horn/lead pipe was designed with the rotor where is was placed. It is one of the few if not the only tuba with that configuration that I consider truly successful. Also for an F tuba it has a great low C, B and B-flat due to other design features within the branches of the horn.

Sam, on your f tuba, if you'd engaged the rotor- does it play as Eb tuba with a good intonation or the trigger is used only for certain notes?

Greg Lecewicz wrote:Sam, on your f tuba, if you'd engaged the rotor- does it play as Eb tuba with a good intonation or the trigger is used only for certain notes?

I am answering this with my experience with my CB-50 and G-60.

Both of these horns are made to convert to a whole-step lower (C to Bb and F to Eb). If I only convert them using the 5th valve, they do not play all that well in-tune. However, with the slides adjusted for the conversion, they do quite well. Both of theservice horns have the 5th in the leadpipe.

KiltieTuba wrote:People keeping naming tubas with 5th valves in the leadpipe that were designed and sold that way.

My G-60 was not originally made that way. Mine was made by Bob Rusk out of a couple of different horns for Getzen. Rusk placed the 5th valve in the lead pipe in a lot of his cut horns with great success.

thevillagetuba wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote:People keeping naming tubas with 5th valves in the leadpipe that were designed and sold that way.

Rusk placed the 5th valve in the lead pipe in a lot of his cut horns with great success.

I don't know if I'd say that...

On most of his cut tubas there isn't anywhere else to put a 5th valve, so he put it in the leadpipe. Check out the amount of space after the valve sections on his cut Holtons and Yorks - not much there, plus most of them have super short tuning slides. Some of the in-the-leadpipe 5th valves worked fine, others compromised what was otherwise a nice playing 4 valve tuba.

I had a G-50 for several years that I really loved, so I've been there and done that and put in my time with leadpipe 5th valves. It was a good tuba and that was the only place that 5th valve could go with the way they built that tuba. But I've also played a number of other Rusk tubas including trying some with and without a leadpipe 5th valve - once the leadpipe 5th valve was gone, those tubas ALWAYS played better.

Tom wrote:

thevillagetuba wrote:

KiltieTuba wrote:People keeping naming tubas with 5th valves in the leadpipe that were designed and sold that way.

Rusk placed the 5th valve in the lead pipe in a lot of his cut horns with great success.

I don't know if I'd say that...

On most of his cut tubas there isn't anywhere else to put a 5th valve, so he put it in the leadpipe. Check out the amount of space after the valve sections on his cut Holtons and Yorks - not much there, plus most of them have super short tuning slides. Some of the in-the-leadpipe 5th valves worked fine, others compromised what was otherwise a nice playing 4 valve tuba.

I had a G-50 for several years that I really loved, so I've been there and done that and put in my time with leadpipe 5th valves. It was a good tuba and that was the only place that 5th valve could go with the way they built that tuba. But I've also played a number of other Rusk tubas including trying some with and without a leadpipe 5th valve - once the leadpipe 5th valve was gone, those tubas ALWAYS played better.

Ok, I can agree with that. I haven't come across one that didn't play fine *for me* but that doesn't mean they all do.

My original post was simply meant to be in regards to whether or not the horn played well with the 5th always active (to tune the horn down the whole-step). Which could be usuable, but would require compensation in the other slides, as well.

Hahaha, Tom, of course the OTHER tubas always play better !!!
I'm just coming back to my original thoughts wondering if adding the fifth to the leadpipe would create more positive effects than the negative ones. I've never played the Yamaha YFB-621 with the 5th so I don't know how it compares to the YCB-621 in sound quality. Theoretically the addition of the f tuba leadpipe with the original 5th should not negatively affect the overall sound just the pitch? My tuba does however play very much in tune with some very slight pitch tendencies. I believe those could be eliminated too if I'd play tuba only but since the other instruments are involved I'm guessing the player is at fault. I wish more people with YFB-621 and YCB-621 and YBB-621 would chime in to share some thoughts. Those are the instruments of the same size (3/4) and the same bore size. I'm certain they behave differently than the full size tubas with the 5th added to them. I had the Yamaha euphonium with the trigger on 4th valve but I sold the valve section because it was making the instrument not as resonant to me- not to the listeners thou.

Greg Lecewicz wrote:Dan, You always "tinker" with things so what do you think the best combination would be regardless of what is being offered in the current models or maybe what's available is the most efficient configuration. If the trigger would be 1 whole step down plus some- on a C tuba would this make it a Bb tuba without any serious ramifications in general pitch? Is the 5 valve used only for those "issue" notes ? I have the 4 valve yamaha ycb-621 and I was thinking about trading it for a Bb horn but if I can add the trigger it would be more cost effective.

I get a kick out of the kids who think the fourth or fifth valve is just for 'playing low'! Those additional valves offer only alternate fingering combinations to help offset any intonation quirks a horn might have. Using a valve to drop the pitch from CC to BBb simply won't work well because all of the tuning circuits also have to be lengthened by 12%. I suppose you could pull everything out accordingly but you are still using 12% straight-bore tubing instead of proper conical tubing.