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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Doc » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:10 am

This one, Ed?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby EdFirth » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:14 am

Wow Doc way to go! I have that album but spent quite awhile looking for it with no success. That is the exact picture I was referring to. As you might notice Bruce isn't wearing the same costume as the others. I think they just had him play the album and pose for the picture. Sidenote, the Chicago Symphony offered Bruce the string bass 2nd tuba position. He told me when but I don't remember.But that they felt that he could hold his own with the basses and keep up with Jake is pretty cool and impressive. He left the New Orleans Symphony to become a dentist I heard him play Barnum and he blew the hell out of it. And a wonderful guy too. Thanks for finding the picture. Ed
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby peterbas » Sat May 26, 2018 8:20 pm

Price of the Miraphones coming down already.

496 priced like a 186, 187 or 191.
https://www.thomann.de/be/miraphone_496a07000_bbtuba_hagen_496.htm

And a 497 only 35% more expensive.
https://www.thomann.de/be/miraphone_496a07000_bbtuba_hagen_496.htm
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Schlepporello » Sun May 27, 2018 5:38 pm

peterbas wrote:Price of the Miraphones coming down already.

496 priced like a 186, 187 or 191.
https://www.thomann.de/be/miraphone_496a07000_bbtuba_hagen_496.htm

And a 497 only 35% more expensive.
https://www.thomann.de/be/miraphone_496a07000_bbtuba_hagen_496.htm

Word on the street has it that there is not much difference in the way the 496 and 497 play, sound characteristics or otherwise.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby bloke » Sun May 27, 2018 7:23 pm

I'm not a particular fan of the Hagan series tubas, but they are ~good~ tubas, and have a strong following.

I am a particular fan of the Siegfried tuba, and it is also a ~good~ tuba.

These are all Bb tubas...

...so why do people ask if there is going to be a "C version" of this/that/the-other...??

It's not often that a __-version of a tuba originally built in __ is a particular success, and - avoiding negativity - I won't list various makers' failures.

Why not just embrace the success that these instruments are, and as they are ?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby bisontuba » Sun May 27, 2018 8:28 pm

Used 496 at Dillons..under $7300...FYI...
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby WagnerRing » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:00 am

Has anyone seen a 5 valve version of the Miraphone Hagen 496 or 497? I've read a few comments about the option to add a 5th valve on the 496 and 497, but there has been very little detail. Would like to hear from anyone who has played a 5 valve version of either of these horns. Thanks.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby pjv » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:10 am

Miraphone doesn't offer 5 valved Hagen's. I've asked.
You'll have to be happy with either a 191 or a Siegfried.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Schlepporello » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:43 am

pjv wrote:Miraphone doesn't offer 5 valved Hagen's. I've asked.
You'll have to be happy with either a 191 or a Siegfried.

When I ordered my 496, the 5th valve was not offered to me as an option.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby bort » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:16 am

Interesting. Seems like there's enough room for it, but what do I know!

My understanding, though, has always been that Miraphone can do pretty much whatever you want, but it'll cost you. Perhaps you just have to ask REALLY nice now?

Roger Lewis would know, for sure.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Doc » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:36 am

Why would you need a 5th valve? Do you really need a pedal B? If you play CC and are used to a 5th valve, you can get over it pretty quickly with a quality BBb. A 5th valve might be a nice option, but mostly unnecessary on a good BBb. (Those silly Germans with their 4v BBb’s... what do they know?)

Having said all that (and unless their policies have changed dramatically), Miraphone will make what you want if you pay for it. For the right money, I’m confident you could get a 497 in goldbrass with 6 valves. For the right money, of course.
All that, plus $8.00, will get you a venti at Starbucks.
Or in my case, a large can of Folgers.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby pjv » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:22 am

Need a 5th valve?
I guess that's up to there player. Personally I find it sucks to play a BBb tuba with 4 valves.

Let's take the key of G for example. I'll need the 4th valve pulled out quite a bit for B, but pushed in for C.
Ok, I could pull my 3rd out and play the C 1&3, but then my F# will be too low.
Ok, I could pull my second way out for B (if it'll go out that far) but I'll need it pushed in for E&A.

So if any of these notes succeed each other in a relatively quick passage I have to work like a mad man to get it to work. We're not talking about fine tuning but rather large tuning differences heard even by the audience (oooooo).

I'd rather take my chances with a 5th valve. Just for that silly B and if I'm lucky that pesky low E might also tune in a pinch.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Kirley » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:29 am

Wouldn’t you set the 4th for in tune B and then use 1&3 for C with a pull on the first slide?
Or is there not enough length on the first slide?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby pjv » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:44 am

Depends on the tuba. But this is still a very long pull, and you'd have to shorten that up for G&D.

Again, not ideal for quick passages on most BBb's.

Even the tuning difference between G and D tends to be more extreme then is comfortable, but it's usually doable (sometimes using the 3rd in stead of 1&2).

But when the tuning difference is really spread out I prefer a 5th over push me-pull you
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby bloke » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:15 pm

pjv wrote:Need a 5th valve?
I guess that's up to there player. Personally I find it sucks to play a BBb tuba with 4 valves.

Let's take the key of G for example. I'll need the 4th valve pulled out quite a bit for B, but pushed in for C.
Ok, I could pull my 3rd out and play the C 1&3, but then my F# will be too low.
Ok, I could pull my second way out for B (if it'll go out that far) but I'll need it pushed in for E&A.

So if any of these notes succeed each other in a relatively quick passage I have to work like a mad man to get it to work. We're not talking about fine tuning but rather large tuning differences heard even by the audience (oooooo).

I'd rather take my chances with a 5th valve. Just for that silly B and if I'm lucky that pesky low E might also tune in a pinch.


A #2 slide trigger helps a 4-valve tuba be more like a 5-valve tuba, and also helps a 5-valve tuba be more like a 6-valve tuba.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby pjv » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:24 pm

Agreed
if;
-the instalment has been done with expertise (slides line up really perfectly, trigger is very secure).
-there's enough pull. Sometimes it's "kind of enough", which either means it's a tad sharp or the slides almost falling off. This is all very satisfying in the beging but eventually can lead to frustrations.

On the other hand a 5th valve and a 2nd trigger is very convenient.

Did the 1/4-tone 5th valve ever pan out as being preferable to other 5th valve tunings?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby WagnerRing » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:21 pm

*
Last edited by WagnerRing on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby pjv » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:11 pm

Maybe available. Maybe not. Maybe by the time it's available they'll have an even better tuba out on the market.
Factory option as in special order, not as in offered on the website. When I contacted them 3 months ago if the 5th was an option the answer was no.
Can they build a dependent 5th? Yes. Will they? Probably.
If you really want to know whats possible, write them or call them.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Schlepporello » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:51 pm

Matt Walters is on TubeNet. He sold me my 496. Why not ask him?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby ren » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:03 am

As someone who played a miraphone 188 for 8 years, ugh. I checked out the chris olka play test of the hagan. I thought it sounded like crap. Why do people buy these.
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