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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby TheTuba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:31 am

ren wrote:As someone who played a miraphone 188 for 8 years, ugh. I checked out the chris olka play test of the hagan. I thought it sounded like crap. Why do people buy these.
These are the worst tubas you could play now. Bad sound, and bad playing tubas.


TNFJ disagrees.
You never know how they play unless you have played it.
While Chris Olka is a great player, his recording and video were not the best quality.
You sound awfully biased in your comment :D
And crap must sound awfully good from your viewpoint then
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Schlepporello » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:18 pm

ren wrote:As someone who played a miraphone 188 for 8 years, ugh. I checked out the chris olka play test of the hagan. I thought it sounded like crap. Why do people buy these.
These are the worst tubas you could play now. Bad sound, and bad playing tubas.

In another thread, you told Bloke that you were not a professional. I do not doubt this, neither am I. However, Chris Olka is. Are you then saying that we should accept your subjective opinions as being fact over anything Chris Olka might say? Chris Olka has 6/4 sized York's to compare the 497 against. I'm sure he could compare the 497 against almost any other horn he chose. You also apparently are not thrilled with the 188, which many people on this board hold in high regard. I can then easily assume that you are looking for a tuba with differing characteristics than the majority of us on this board are looking for. As for me, I'm happy with my 496, which is why I bought it. And as for your opinion, everyone has one.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Donn » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:32 pm

Schlepporello wrote:In another thread, you told Bloke that you were not a professional. I do not doubt this, neither am I. However, Chris Olka is. Are you then saying that we should accept your subjective opinions as being fact over anything Chris Olka might say?


For me ... I'm not a professional, and the professionals I've known personally have been so near the bottom of the heap that I may have a warped perspective, but anyway technically speaking, a professional tuba player is a type of artist. "Some of my best friends are artists, but" I would never take their opinions as fact, in any way - and I don't think they would expect me to. Freedom of speech in this context requires us to read with that understanding, really, because any of us can make the same claim, to be implicitly understood to be speaking from a personal perspective that is almost guaranteed to apply to no one else.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby ren » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:16 pm

Chris is an amazing player. Im not suggesting anything except, I was a pro, playing miraphones in my opinion was a big mistake which I eventually corrected, but teachers bamboozle people into it all the time. And thats just *my* opinion, which im sharing. I do not like the sound of that Bflat Hagen either. Everyone has their own sound and playing ideals. If Chris Olka likes the Hagen, thats certainly his choice to like it as much as its my choice to not like it. And yes i am biased against miraphones. I earned the right to be so through years of practice on them.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Mark Finley » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:53 pm

So... You dislike well built tubas with amazing tones, excellent intonation, and lightning quick response.

Gotcha
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Doc » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:03 pm

I played a 188 as one of my main horns for a number of years. It was a great instrument, and it was the right tuba at the right time. They have a reputation for being one of the most in-tune CC tubas, and mine was no exception. Very versatile. And I purchased mine on my own without encouragement from anyone.

Having said all that, it does not meet the criteria I seek today, and I can understand some of the reasons it’s not a match for others (bamboozling notwithstanding). I am a fan of the 496, and I listened to Chris’ 497 review 20+ times. And I had watched those MW 197 videos from a lesser known player a dozen times before Joe mentioned them somewhere. I dig it. If others don’t, that’s groovy. But if they are bad playing tubas, I hate to think what the tubas I have owned play like. :shock: .
All that, plus $8.00, will get you a venti at Starbucks.
Or in my case, a large can of Folgers.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby ren » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:19 pm

Mark Finley wrote:So... You dislike well built tubas with amazing tones, excellent intonation, and lightning quick response.

Gotcha


No I love those :tuba: , I just cant stand miraphones!
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby TheTuba » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:45 pm

ren wrote:
Mark Finley wrote:So... You dislike well built tubas with amazing tones, excellent intonation, and lightning quick response.

Gotcha


No I love those :tuba: , I just cant stand miraphones!


But that is a miraphone.
Why don't we all just leave this part of it alone. People have different opinions and ideals of tubas. We should respect that.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Lamminator » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:36 am

WagnerRing wrote:Has anyone seen a 5 valve version of the Miraphone Hagen 496 or 497? I've read a few comments about the option to add a 5th valve on the 496 and 497, but there has been very little detail. Would like to hear from anyone who has played a 5 valve version of either of these horns. Thanks.


Just a quick cut and paste for you if your interested still.

Tested with Korg TM 60 with contact mic. 443hz

B Tubas tested with PT 48 mouthpiece
C Tubas tested with AMH signatures mouthpiece and the one above.

I tested a number of models from Miraphone and Wessex Tubas And St. Petersburg.

Miraphone.

Hagen 496 5v.
I was very excited to see the availability of the 5valve given that I really liked the 4valve. Let me get to the point still really good intonation and minimal slide pulling needed however with the fifth valve stacked on top of the first valve the balance of the whole instrument has changed. And that’s not a good thing as the it’s quite a bit heavier and not as comfortable. A big disappointment for me as ergonomics suffer for very little benefit in terms of extra valve.

Hagen 496 4v
All the positives of great intonation and balance in a light weight package make this my favourite Miraphone B Tuba. It’s really easy to get into the right tuning with very little adjustment. A solid buy with super rotary. If you like Miraphone you will love this.

Bruckner 231
First time trying this out. Let me state I am not an experienced player on a C tuba, very compact and comfortable with easy playing position. I’m 176cm in case your wondering. I was really impressed agin that the tuning was easy to slot in the lower range was very accessible and the higher range surprisingly free blowing and in tune with little effort on my part. I can see why so many people like this instrument. My favourite C Tuba from Miraphone. The sound however didn’t say special to me. It sounded like a Tuba. I hope for a bit more special. Just my opinion and as I said I’m not the expert on these but I know what I like.

188 CC
Super compact wrap and you can give a a cheeky hug. Sooo easy to hold and move around and lovely sound above the second partial. This tubas sings in the higher register and would be great on solo repertoire. I found the lower register much harder to produce that full open sound like the Bruckner. I couldn’t slot the tuning as well and in part the tight wrap limited the BIG sound. I know it’s a 4/4 and it not going to have that same openness. Still and great Tuba for those wanted that style just not for me.

1293
This model did not do it for me at all. The main problem was the valves! They were a bit rubbish. Not responsive and heavy. Actually the instrument was too heavy in my opinion and I didn’t like it. I know how may people like this model range 1291/1292. I kind of think i just had a bad example.

St Petersburg

210 CC
A big bore Tuba in a smallish package which would be suitable for someone playing outside a lot who doesn’t really mind if it’s gets bashed up a bit. The sound is pretty big the design and build quality leave a lot to be desired. I’m just not sure cheap horns are the way forward I wouldn’t recommend for young or old as a main Tuba. I’m not sure what market this is for. I would think a lighter smaller bore CC which could appeal to first time buyers would be a better way to go. Just putting a funky finishes on instrument doesn’t make them any better.

202 B Tuba Rotary 45 premium
See above. So on this one they have put German Rotary made by Voigt. Great Valves at an extra cost of €1700!! Yes you saw it. Seriously just buy a better Tuba. Honestly don’t waste you money. Save up and and just get a Hagen which is about €2500 more. I know what people will say but if we keep buying this stuff they will keep making it. Get a good second hand instrument and yes you may have to wait a bit there are out there........ somewhere.

Wessex

6/4 Rotary Tuba Kaiser
OMG. It’s the one of the Best Tubas I have ever played. Don’t take my word for it. Actually do take my word. Or better yet find one and play it and then take your word. The SOUND oh the SOUND. It’s the Tuba sound for B Tuba. End of discussion. Ok not quite. Even I sound good which is going some. It’s so free blowing and easy accessible in all registers you have to try it. Now you might think I’m sitting on the fence but not quite. The mouthpiece supplied with it is a custom one designed in-house. This really works. My mouthpiece didn’t quite lock in the sound. Completely hand made and under €10,000 euros it’s a bargain. Get one before they go up in price. This Tuba is tall and the lead pipe is high to. Most mortals will need a stand to play this at the correct angle. Wessex told me that the lead pipe has been lowered from the original design. I know the Americain market has a different focus than the BbTubas but this is a killer instrument which for orchestral use would purrfect. In the market for the best Bb Rotary Kaiser. Play it then buy it.

CC 6/4 Presence
I had the chance to play one of these last year and like it a lot but found the whole York style a bit alien to me. Since then I have played on more of this style of instrument and felt much more at home this time. For me the handmade light weight is great as I don’t care much for heavy instruments. It’s blows great and in the hall we were in the sound resonated and got lots of turning head on both the CC and Kaiser. I’m now in the the market for a Contrabass and this is top of the list. I think the flexibility and breath of sound you can get from this model will tick lots of boxes and enable it to fit into more ensembles. I could see me using this for solo work as well as the 18inch bell gives it a more focused sound in the higher register. The pedals speak great and the instrument resonates through your hands when you get the sound just right.

That’s about it really. I look forward to any comments.

Now where did I put my Bass ukulele?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Schlepporello » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:35 pm

Lamminator wrote:Hagen 496 5v.
I was very excited to see the availability of the 5valve given that I really liked the 4valve. Let me get to the point still really good intonation and minimal slide pulling needed however with the fifth valve stacked on top of the first valve the balance of the whole instrument has changed. And that’s not a good thing as the it’s quite a bit heavier and not as comfortable. A big disappointment for me as ergonomics suffer for very little benefit in terms of extra valve.

Hagen 496 4v
All the positives of great intonation and balance in a light weight package make this my favourite Miraphone B Tuba. It’s really easy to get into the right tuning with very little adjustment. A solid buy with super rotary. If you like Miraphone you will love this.

I've noticed over time that my 496 is heavier than the 187 I had. But given the results of the horn, I'll deal with the weight happily. After all, it's not to me as heavy as a "Fafner". And as for the 5th valve, if that is making the horn heavier, that's just another reason for me not to have one besides the fact that I still don't know what I'd use it for.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Roger Lewis » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:48 pm

Just an FYI. I took the 496 from my show stock to MTS Products in Elkhart, Indiana a week ago so they could design a case for it. They now have a case available for it and WWBW should have it in their listings now. We had to modify the MTS1209V to get a good fit and they were able to accomplish this in less than an hour. Check with MTS for more information about this case. It is a great horn.

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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Schlepporello » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:44 am

Roger Lewis wrote:Just an FYI. I took the 496 from my show stock to MTS Products in Elkhart, Indiana a week ago so they could design a case for it. They now have a case available for it and WWBW should have it in their listings now. We had to modify the MTS1209V to get a good fit and they were able to accomplish this in less than an hour. Check with MTS for more information about this case. It is a great horn.

Roger Lewis
Miraphone Corporation

I have the large MTS case that I had used for my 187. Matt Walters told me that to make if fit the 496, I would need to remove the box shaped storage compartment in the MTS case, then it would fit fine. Is this basically what MTS did?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby iiipopes » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:51 am

Lamminator wrote:Now where did I put my Bass ukulele?

Great instruments. I have a Kala bubinga one made just before CITES took effect. The strings are a development from the original Ashbory Bass. It is more versatile than one might believe on first glance.

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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Roger Lewis » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:22 pm

On the new case for the 496 they made the box a little narrower and moved it toward the the bell just a little.

Roger
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Postby Schlepporello » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:46 am

Roger Lewis wrote:On the new case for the 496 they made the box a little narrower and moved it toward the the bell just a little.

Roger

Thanks Roger!
I'm just crazy about dementia.
BBb Helicon built by Harvey Hartman (for sale)
Miraphone 496
York "Master" (pre-1961)
Yamaha YBB-103
Conn 20K Sousaphone (no worky)
Frank Holton Sousaphone (no valve cluster)
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