Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

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pjv
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by pjv »

Agreed
if;
-the instalment has been done with expertise (slides line up really perfectly, trigger is very secure).
-there's enough pull. Sometimes it's "kind of enough", which either means it's a tad sharp or the slides almost falling off. This is all very satisfying in the beging but eventually can lead to frustrations.

On the other hand a 5th valve and a 2nd trigger is very convenient.

Did the 1/4-tone 5th valve ever pan out as being preferable to other 5th valve tunings?
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by WagnerRing »

*
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by pjv »

Maybe available. Maybe not. Maybe by the time it's available they'll have an even better tuba out on the market.
Factory option as in special order, not as in offered on the website. When I contacted them 3 months ago if the 5th was an option the answer was no.
Can they build a dependent 5th? Yes. Will they? Probably.
If you really want to know whats possible, write them or call them.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by TheTuba »

ren wrote:As someone who played a miraphone 188 for 8 years, ugh. I checked out the chris olka play test of the hagan. I thought it sounded like crap. Why do people buy these.
These are the worst tubas you could play now. Bad sound, and bad playing tubas.
TNFJ disagrees.
You never know how they play unless you have played it.
While Chris Olka is a great player, his recording and video were not the best quality.
You sound awfully biased in your comment :D
And crap must sound awfully good from your viewpoint then
:tuba:
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Donn »

Schlepporello wrote: In another thread, you told Bloke that you were not a professional. I do not doubt this, neither am I. However, Chris Olka is. Are you then saying that we should accept your subjective opinions as being fact over anything Chris Olka might say?
For me ... I'm not a professional, and the professionals I've known personally have been so near the bottom of the heap that I may have a warped perspective, but anyway technically speaking, a professional tuba player is a type of artist. "Some of my best friends are artists, but" I would never take their opinions as fact, in any way - and I don't think they would expect me to. Freedom of speech in this context requires us to read with that understanding, really, because any of us can make the same claim, to be implicitly understood to be speaking from a personal perspective that is almost guaranteed to apply to no one else.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by TheTuba »

ren wrote:
Mark Finley wrote:So... You dislike well built tubas with amazing tones, excellent intonation, and lightning quick response.

Gotcha
No I love those :tuba: , I just cant stand miraphones!
But that is a miraphone.
Why don't we all just leave this part of it alone. People have different opinions and ideals of tubas. We should respect that.
I would put a good signature here, but i dont have one, so this will make do.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

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WagnerRing wrote:Has anyone seen a 5 valve version of the Miraphone Hagen 496 or 497? I've read a few comments about the option to add a 5th valve on the 496 and 497, but there has been very little detail. Would like to hear from anyone who has played a 5 valve version of either of these horns. Thanks.
Just a quick cut and paste for you if your interested still.

Tested with Korg TM 60 with contact mic. 443hz

B Tubas tested with PT 48 mouthpiece
C Tubas tested with AMH signatures mouthpiece and the one above.

I tested a number of models from Miraphone and Wessex Tubas And St. Petersburg.

Miraphone.

Hagen 496 5v.
I was very excited to see the availability of the 5valve given that I really liked the 4valve. Let me get to the point still really good intonation and minimal slide pulling needed however with the fifth valve stacked on top of the first valve the balance of the whole instrument has changed. And that’s not a good thing as the it’s quite a bit heavier and not as comfortable. A big disappointment for me as ergonomics suffer for very little benefit in terms of extra valve.

Hagen 496 4v
All the positives of great intonation and balance in a light weight package make this my favourite Miraphone B Tuba. It’s really easy to get into the right tuning with very little adjustment. A solid buy with super rotary. If you like Miraphone you will love this.

Bruckner 231
First time trying this out. Let me state I am not an experienced player on a C tuba, very compact and comfortable with easy playing position. I’m 176cm in case your wondering. I was really impressed agin that the tuning was easy to slot in the lower range was very accessible and the higher range surprisingly free blowing and in tune with little effort on my part. I can see why so many people like this instrument. My favourite C Tuba from Miraphone. The sound however didn’t say special to me. It sounded like a Tuba. I hope for a bit more special. Just my opinion and as I said I’m not the expert on these but I know what I like.

188 CC
Super compact wrap and you can give a a cheeky hug. Sooo easy to hold and move around and lovely sound above the second partial. This tubas sings in the higher register and would be great on solo repertoire. I found the lower register much harder to produce that full open sound like the Bruckner. I couldn’t slot the tuning as well and in part the tight wrap limited the BIG sound. I know it’s a 4/4 and it not going to have that same openness. Still and great Tuba for those wanted that style just not for me.

1293
This model did not do it for me at all. The main problem was the valves! They were a bit rubbish. Not responsive and heavy. Actually the instrument was too heavy in my opinion and I didn’t like it. I know how may people like this model range 1291/1292. I kind of think i just had a bad example.

St Petersburg

210 CC
A big bore Tuba in a smallish package which would be suitable for someone playing outside a lot who doesn’t really mind if it’s gets bashed up a bit. The sound is pretty big the design and build quality leave a lot to be desired. I’m just not sure cheap horns are the way forward I wouldn’t recommend for young or old as a main Tuba. I’m not sure what market this is for. I would think a lighter smaller bore CC which could appeal to first time buyers would be a better way to go. Just putting a funky finishes on instrument doesn’t make them any better.

202 B Tuba Rotary 45 premium
See above. So on this one they have put German Rotary made by Voigt. Great Valves at an extra cost of €1700!! Yes you saw it. Seriously just buy a better Tuba. Honestly don’t waste you money. Save up and and just get a Hagen which is about €2500 more. I know what people will say but if we keep buying this stuff they will keep making it. Get a good second hand instrument and yes you may have to wait a bit there are out there........ somewhere.

Wessex

6/4 Rotary Tuba Kaiser
OMG. It’s the one of the Best Tubas I have ever played. Don’t take my word for it. Actually do take my word. Or better yet find one and play it and then take your word. The SOUND oh the SOUND. It’s the Tuba sound for B Tuba. End of discussion. Ok not quite. Even I sound good which is going some. It’s so free blowing and easy accessible in all registers you have to try it. Now you might think I’m sitting on the fence but not quite. The mouthpiece supplied with it is a custom one designed in-house. This really works. My mouthpiece didn’t quite lock in the sound. Completely hand made and under €10,000 euros it’s a bargain. Get one before they go up in price. This Tuba is tall and the lead pipe is high to. Most mortals will need a stand to play this at the correct angle. Wessex told me that the lead pipe has been lowered from the original design. I know the Americain market has a different focus than the BbTubas but this is a killer instrument which for orchestral use would purrfect. In the market for the best Bb Rotary Kaiser. Play it then buy it.

CC 6/4 Presence
I had the chance to play one of these last year and like it a lot but found the whole York style a bit alien to me. Since then I have played on more of this style of instrument and felt much more at home this time. For me the handmade light weight is great as I don’t care much for heavy instruments. It’s blows great and in the hall we were in the sound resonated and got lots of turning head on both the CC and Kaiser. I’m now in the the market for a Contrabass and this is top of the list. I think the flexibility and breath of sound you can get from this model will tick lots of boxes and enable it to fit into more ensembles. I could see me using this for solo work as well as the 18inch bell gives it a more focused sound in the higher register. The pedals speak great and the instrument resonates through your hands when you get the sound just right.

That’s about it really. I look forward to any comments.

Now where did I put my Bass ukulele?
Luft Luft Luft
Wessex Presence CC
Wessex British F
Meinl Weston 2040/5
ZO Thunderbird Custom Bflat
Besson 981 (Sold)
Fafner 195 (Sold)
Et al
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Roger Lewis »

Just an FYI. I took the 496 from my show stock to MTS Products in Elkhart, Indiana a week ago so they could design a case for it. They now have a case available for it and WWBW should have it in their listings now. We had to modify the MTS1209V to get a good fit and they were able to accomplish this in less than an hour. Check with MTS for more information about this case. It is a great horn.

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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by iiipopes »

Lamminator wrote:Now where did I put my Bass ukulele?
Great instruments. I have a Kala bubinga one made just before CITES took effect. The strings are a development from the original Ashbory Bass. It is more versatile than one might believe on first glance.
UBASS-RMBL-FS_17_R_1024x.jpg
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Roger Lewis »

On the new case for the 496 they made the box a little narrower and moved it toward the the bell just a little.

Roger
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by PeteDenton »

Interesting discussions here.

I have played Miraphones since I bought my 188 back in 1987. In the UK my 188 still gets real positive comments compared with a Besson 981 EEb in an orchestral setting. much more punch when needed as well as a fatter sound too.

I also have a 481 Elektra which has had much orchestral positivity for it's lightness compared with the 981 on 19th century tuba parts (nowhere near as fat soudning).

I have a lovely 496 Hagen which I've not tried orchestrally yet but which my brass band Musical Director loves the sound of.

I still play my Besson 981 - but only on EEb Bass parts in Brass Band and as tuba in brass quintet - which it does OK but not always brilliantly.

My points: (i) a good tuba will work well but only if you use it in the right context; (ii) bigger isn't always better.

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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Three Valves »

TheTuba wrote:
ren wrote:
Mark Finley wrote:So... You dislike well built tubas with amazing tones, excellent intonation, and lightning quick response.

Gotcha
No I love those :tuba: , I just cant stand miraphones!
But that is a miraphone.
Why don't we all just leave this part of it alone. People have different opinions and ideals of tubas. We should respect that.
If all opinions were equally researched, presented, valid and correct, you would have a point.

But they are not, so you don’t!!

:tuba:
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by bort »

The Hagen looks like it would play well with others. The Siegfried looks like it would eat everyone in sight.

I like the looks of all of them, the 495, 496, 497, and 98. I'd love to try any of them out!
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by pjv »

Last year I was at Miraphone and tried the 91, 496, 497, 98 and several F's.
The 496 was much a better player than the 91 that was present.
I can't emphasise enough that I can only comment on the tuba that was present that day which may or may not reflect the worth of the model manufactured.
There were two 98's. One played great and the other I put back real quick ('nuff said).
The 497 also played amazingly. Both the 497 and the 98 share a lot of similar parts some of which are hand-made. I liked the 497 better than the 98 THAT WAS there.

Is this my personal model preference?
Is this because the example of the 497 there was just a little bit better than the example of the 98 there that day?
Was this just my mood that day?

Who knows. The Hagen played just a bit easier.
The only reason I didn't get either was because I just don't have a music life which requires a 6/4 horn.
I later purchased a 496 and I'm very happy with it.

Having played this tuba for a year now, would I be happier if I'd purchased a 98 or a 497?
Who knows.
I can only recommend all of this tubas as easy clear blowing, great intonation tubas with amazingly light and quick valves. All of which are fine qualities to have for the largest and longest member of the tuba family.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by pjv »

This is a copy of my post a year or so ago

Siegfried and Hagen 497 are almost the same partially hand-made instruments and share almost all of the same parts.
Difference: Bell is larger on the 497 but the mouthpipe starts smaller. The mouthpipe on the Siegfried and the 497 are hand bent. Between the valves the knuckles make sharp angles (not rounded like the Siegfried). Miraphone says the idea is that even though the Siegfried gives a fine sound to the player it wasn’t reaching the audience as well as desired. The 497 does this better (according to Miraphone). The 497 does play a bit tighter but also more freely. Is this because of the design difference, the absence of a 5th valve or a combination of the both? Your guess is as good as mine There was a second Seigfried (in silver) but for me the brass one played better.

497 and 496 are the same until after the valve section where the 496 moves on towards a smaller bell. The 496 is for the rest not hand-made (as far as I know).
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by tofu »

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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by bort »

The problem is that the 495, 496, and 497 are all called "Hagen." The 495 and 496 are normal tuba prices. The 497 and Siegfried are both like $20k or a little more.

I think the difference in cost reflects the difference in cost to manufacture -- unique parts, maybe more handwork, and most likely, the expectations of fewer sales.

How many 497 or Siegfried tubas do you think they've made? Or plan to make more of?

I'd love to try any of them. I almost bought a 496 a few years ago, but chickened out and decided to stick with CC. :oops:
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by Billy M. »

I still would love to see a CC version of the 496, personally.
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by bort »

Doc wrote:
bloke wrote:Before DP (with his highly-valued-by-me grounded insights) was chased off the forum,

His standard joke (in response to any good B-flat tuba presented for discussion or sale) was to post:
CUT IT TO C !!! :twisted:
D@^^^, Joe... You should have cut my Kaiser down to CC while I was there.
I'd love to have a Kaiser in CC that was worth a damn. The Alex 164 had the sound, but leaves much playability to be desired. Cerveny ... Meh (sorry Mark). Not much else out there!
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Re: Miraphone 496 Hagen 5/4 BBb Tuba

Post by jeopardymaster »

PM sent to bort.
Gnagey CC, VMI Neptune 4098 CC, Mirafone 184-5U CC and 56 Bb, Besson 983 EEb and euphonium, King marching baritone, Alexander 163 BBb, Conn 71H/112H bass trombone, Olds Recording tenor trombone.
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