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I'm currently looking for somewhere to pursue my DMA in performance (euphonium). I'm curious to know what criteria was used for anyone who has a DMA or is currently in school? My interest are teaching on the college level, becoming K-12 certified and jazz.

MSUphonium wrote:I'm currently looking for somewhere to pursue my DMA in performance (euphonium). I'm curious to know what criteria was used for anyone who has a DMA or is currently in school? My interest are teaching on the college level, becoming K-12 certified and jazz.

When I was applying to doctoral programs in another discipline, I applied to the four institutions that had the most consistent track record for placing their graduates in my field in academic jobs. I was admitted to two of those, and went to the one that gave me the most financial aid.

I think that's a pretty good approach.

I had an academic job a few months after graduating. Stuck with it through one promotion and then went to administration.

I have two music degrees and after getting the second I had learned something: The energy required to get a graduate degree in music could be invested in something far more lucrative. The two degrees I already have make me qualified or over qualified for most musical work, which often pays less than I could make other ways. My degrees are in education, and I think performance would be even more this way. Euphonium might be especially so.

Yeah... don't get a dma in euphonium performance.

If you are a euphonium player and also play trombone or tuba and absolutely have to get a DMA in performance, you may want to take a look at programs like this DMA in Low Brass at West Virginia University:

http://music.wvu.edu/future-students/doctoral-programs

I know nothing about that program, but a DMA in low brass makes more sense to me these days than a DMA in euphonium. I'm sure there are a few others out there like this. The WVU program is the only one I had heard of. I hope it is heavy on pedagogy.

University of North Texas:

Euphonium Performance DMA: I'm not sure I'd bother with a Euph DMA from elsewhere

Traching at college level (pretty much all you'd "need" the DMA for): check!

K-12 Certification: Yep, can do that there, too, if you want

Jazz: Amongst the very best programs anywhere.

Practice rooms look the same at every school. Pick the one in a city you want to live in.

Do not pay tuition. Do not pay tuition. Do not pay tuition.

Michael Bush wrote:When I was applying to doctoral programs in another discipline, I applied to the four institutions that had the most consistent track record for placing their graduates in my field in academic jobs. I was admitted to two of those, and went to the one that gave me the most financial aid.

When I was applying to my non-music PhD program, I found it extremely important to visit the schools and/or talk with the faculty. I can only imagine how important it would be for a music student. I applied to 3 programs and was accepted to all 3. The one I thought I would like the most turned out to be the one I liked the least. And the one I thought was a total long shot ended up being a perfect match (and by far the best financial offer as well). And the one I was on the fence about was a solid "meh" reaction even after visiting.

I'm unaware of any program that "places" their graduates in positions. Even (especially?) for PhD's, jobs don't just get handed out. It's a rigorous application and interview process. I can hardly imagine many people with doctorates (even in euphonium performance!) hitting the unemployment line, but I can imagine that people with those degrees end up in jobs other than what they would prefer.

The degree will get you in the door -- possibly farther in the same old doors than you were before, or possibly just to the threshold of some different doors. It's just an accelerated or advanced starting point, and not a guarantee. Once you're at the new start, it's still up to you to make it work. You see it all the time in the business world, it's not the people with the most letters after their name who are in the highest positions.

A DMA in euphonium is not worth the time unless you are doing it for kicks. Think about how few schools have a full-load of euphonium students (16 students). Those schools are likely to hire a top performer like a Brian Bowman as opposed to somebody with paper credentials.

A school that wants to hire a low-brass teacher to teach a variety of instruments will almost always hire a trombonist first. The only university teacher I can think of who became a trombonist after establishing a career on euphonium is John Mueller. Fantastic musician who spent 21 years in the D.C. Army Band.

Pursuing a DMA is a great thing to do if you love learning about music, and if you won't incur any debt in the process. (Why not?) A DMA in euphonium is on par with an advanced degree in bass clarinet playing.

Good luck!

bort wrote:
I'm unaware of any program that "places" their graduates in positions. Even (especially?) for PhD's, jobs don't just get handed out.

Of course. Poor word choice on my part. What I meant was that a relatively large proportion get academic jobs.

Of the four of us who showed up the year I started the PhD in that department, all of us finished the degree (which is not to be overlooked as I did in my first post), three got tenure track teaching jobs, and one, who now has tenure at a major university, went to a "think-tank" initially, and not as a post-doc. So that's pretty much 100%. And all of us are white, American, male, and heterosexual (so no preferred groups). I'm suggesting looking for a track record in that range. It probably doesn't exist anymore in changed academic environment, but come as close as possible.

Physical location of the school should be irrelevant as compared to other factors. But it's only human to want to live and study in a place you like and is supportive to your goals (for example, going to Manhattan School of Music would give you a lot more opportunities to network, see stuff, and do stuff that you wouldn't be able to do at South Central Louisiana State University or Gudger College).

It's all a giant balancing act. Go to the place with the best instructor and hate the college/location, then you might be in worse shape than if you went to a great school/city and were "just okay" with the instructor.

MSUphonium wrote: My interest are teaching on the college level, becoming K-12 certified and jazz.

A DMA in euphonium won't help much towards any of those goals.

K-12 certification is trickier and more time-consuming than a lot of people realize, and isn't usually something you can tack onto a DMA. Several schools (for instance, Michigan) list an option of adding K-12 certification onto a master's in performance, so maybe that would be something to look at if you don't already have a master's.

You can teach applied low brass at the college level without any performance degree. I do, and my doctorate is in musicology. The accrediting body we answer to only cares that applied instructors have at least a master's in music, doesn't matter what subfield. On the other hand, NASM is getting pickier about having actual musicologists teach music history, theorists teach theory, etc., and many states require that people who teach certain music ed courses have (or had at some point) K-12 certification and X years experience in K-12. So if you envision yourself in a jack-of-all-trades position (which is many if not most full-time college music jobs now) I would consider the DMA to be the least flexible (unless it's in conducting, and then only if you have K-12 experience).

Mudman wrote:The only university teacher I can think of who became a trombonist after establishing a career on euphonium is John Mueller. Fantastic musician who spent 21 years in the D.C. Army Band.

Another person I would contact is Roger Oyster, Principal Trombone in the Kansas City Symphony and trombone/euphonium instructor at the University of Central Missouri. Before becoming Principal Trombone in KC, he spent 6 years in the President's Own in D.C. Certainly, he could give you good advice about how to proceed and he might even be an instructor for you to consider. Good luck!

russiantuba wrote:Also, if you are going to go on euphonium alone, UNT will probably be your only choice. Many university jobs have faculty quintet requirements, and unless you play tuba or trombone, you probably won't be considered. If you go elsewhere, your applied instructor will probably have you pick up tuba.

Biggs wrote:Practice rooms look the same at every school. Pick the one in a city you want to live in.

Do not pay tuition. Do not pay tuition. Do not pay tuition.

First part, I disagree with. It is CRUCIAL that your teacher, who will likely be your advisor, is someone you click with and get along with. Also, just because you audition somewhere, doesn't mean you will get in or like the program. Many of these schools have studio size limits or the professor accepts 1 DMA at a time.

However he is right about not paying. Get a TA so you can get teaching experience. At my school in particular, I got a ton of teaching and other professional experience which is helping me now, including helping on audition days and other music recruitment days. This is stuff extra to the degree that helps you in the field.

Demondrae got his doctorate in trombone. I believe I was told by a famous person in the field that Brian Bowman also got his doctorate in trombone, or at least studied with a trombone professor.

Obviously you have to be 'accepted' and can't just 'show up' - I think that OP understands that and it went without saying. However,
I could have been much clearer, and for that I apologize.

Of course James is correct; your relationship with your teacher is an important part of the overall fit. However, just as practice rooms look the same at every school, I think all 'name' teachers (and probably all 'non-name' teachers) have two things in common:

1.) They are really, really good at playing.
2.) You could easily find, for any given professor, dozens of colleagues, former students, current students, etc. to be character witnesses to tell you what great people they are, what great teachers they are, how much their students improved, and so on.

They wouldn't be selling DMAs in euphonium at a school that sells DMAs without those two criteria. Your tolerance level for interpersonal dissonance is something only you can determine, but it's not as if the field is overwhelmed with incompetent assholes and, even in the case of the incompetent assholes, they have succeeded and garnered supporters, so tolerating their incompetent asshole-ry might be worth it.

TLDR: don't overthink it.

russiantuba wrote:You can teach college with just a masters...though a DMA will make more doors open in the college world (not many doors to open).

I am assuming you have a MM? I would suggest look at schools that offer K-12 alternative certification, maybe get another masters but in music education?

How did your MM program treat you in terms of academics and time commitments?

I didn't mention that I am in my 4th yr of teaching at a small private school, low brass instructor/assistant band director. That's exactly why I'm looking into the DMA...after applying to other jobs in higher ed, I'm being told the person hired has a DMA.

I do have a MM. I have considered that also. Thanks.

MSUphonium wrote:I didn't mention that I am in my 4th yr of teaching at a small private school, low brass instructor/assistant band director. That's exactly why I'm looking into the DMA...after applying to other jobs in higher ed, I'm being told the person hired has a DMA.

A more marketable option would probably be to earn the DMA in conducting, with a related field in euphonium or trombone. Even if it is paid for, I wouldn't encourage anybody to pursue a DMA in euphonium. If you are strong enough and are set on pursuing a degree on an instrument, consider trombone as the instrument more likely to help you win a job (a long shot).

Many PhD's in Music Education require a set number of years teaching prior to beginning the degree. Four years might be enough at some universities. A PhD in Education might be another marketable career option.

Biggs wrote: Do not pay tuition. Do not pay tuition. Do not pay tuition.

That echoes a sentiment a great tuba professor once shared with me, which was "If you have to pay for grad school, you're not ready for grad school."