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For what it's worth, I had really good luck with both Fand Eb on my travel tuba. I think these horns are designed as an F tuba and thus the Eb is a bit harder to play. But it was acceptable to me in both keys. Having both keys did give me some interesting options for playing which I really liked.

Use a 5v CC and hold the 5th valve down. Play it like a 4v BBb.

On a 4v Eb, tape down 4v. Play like 3v CC. Worked for that guy from Chicago.

The Neptune has a locking 5th valve to turn it into a 4valve BBb. It worked just fine, but frankly it just seemed like a gimmick. If you really wanted a BBb, why not just get a BBb, and especially one that has a different kind of sound. That is, a Neptune BBb sound is not a Kaiser BBb sound. It was fun though.

58mark wrote:Didn't the Getzen/canadian brass tuba have the same feature? Any better?

The G-50 5th valve stop arm could be flipped and locked "on" to make the tuba into a so-called 4 valve BBb. The valve slides were all very long on that model (except the main slide), so each valve circuit could be pulled to get pretty close to being the mathematically correct length for a BBb tuba.

That model was heavily touted for it's ability to be played as a BBb tuba, but it was probably just a hook to sell more of that model to students that were shopping for their first tuba and worried about going from BBb to CC.

I tried it when I had a G-50. Yeah, it could be done. Yes, the horn was "playable" as a BBb. No, it was not a good BBb. ALL of the length needed to get the open bugle from CC was in the in-the-leadpipe 5th valve that was a relatively small bore so it played stuffy. Some here have disagreed with me (but they tend to be folks that either own G-50s now or are trying to sell one) but I can't imagine anyone really liking the G-50 as a BBb or that anyone would buy one for the purpose of playing it in BBb. They are great CC tubas and should be played as such.

I guess the bottom line is that it was a gimmick on the G-50, too.

58mark wrote:

The Big Ben wrote:Use a 5v CC and hold the 5th valve down. Play it like a 4v BBb.

On a 4v Eb, tape down 4v. Play like 3v CC. Worked for that guy from Chicago.

Doesn't work that way. if you hold down a 4th valve on a CC tuba, you have a 3v BBb tuba

Better rethink that statement. I'm not saying the Eb to CC is right, but....

Fun discussion. However.... you cannot simply modify the length of the open bugle (fundamental length) without changing the lengths of the tuning circuits too.

Secondly... excessive amounts of straight-bore tubing in the open bugle is not a good thing.

The Big Ben wrote:On a 4v Eb, tape down 4v. Play like 3v CC. Worked for that guy from Chicago.

Guess I be wrong. Scroll down to second page. The Chicago player taped down 4v on his Eb, pulled out slides as best he could and played it as a BBb:

http://www.windsongpress.com/centennial ... Jacobs.pdf" target="_blank"

Here are some posts here about some CC/F double tubas built with some success:

viewtopic.php?t=6781" target="_blank"

My son has a Meinl-Westin (division of Getzen) that has a lock-down on a valve that allows it to be played in two keys, I believe. I don't know the model number, nor the keys, but I believe it is BBb/CC.

58mark wrote:it's too early in the morning for math...

No such thing!

bloke wrote:C/Bb trumpets, generally (including respected manufacturers), tend to play well in C and SUCK in Bb...just as Miraphone 186 CC tubas with the old 2-foot-long BBb conversion slide. When I've bought Bach C/Bb trumpets for resale, I've thrown the Bb slide sets in the parts drawer and sold them as C trumpets. (Otherwise, they likely would not have sold, as the Bb versions of those instruments were so awful.)

Played in an orchestra and was given a Scott Joplin piece which was scored for a trumpet in A. I had a Bb trumpet so sucked it up and transposed it on the fly. The guy next to me had some kind of "trumpet" which could be played in Bb and A. There were lines on the slides which were where the A adjustment should begin. It sounded awful. The director finally told him he had to transpose or not play. He couldn't transpose it so the director relented and rescored the trumpet part to Bb.