Conn or Pan Am recording Bass I.D.

[opus37]

I just rescued another BBb tuba. It has a 20 inch recording bell, is 14 inches across at the valve set, is 46 inches from the top of the bell to the bottom of the bow, it is 26 inches from the bell attachment ring to the bottom bow and the ring looks like it is 6 inches in diameter. The serial number is P599XX. From looking on the Conn Loyalist site, it could be about a 1927 Pan Am. It is silver plate, but it has quite a bit of wear. Not many dents and only small ones at that. You can see from the pictures that it has 3 upright piston valves. The back of the bell says "Body by C.G. Conn Ltd." So can someone fill me in on the model number or anything else about this horn? It sounds really deep and full.

[Tom Coffey]

Check the bell again. It might say "made by" or built by. I have never seen "body by," except "body by Fisher" on a certain vintage of GM cars. If it says Conn, it is a Conn, not a Pan Am. Cool looking horn.

[opus37]

I rechecked it is body by Conn. If you enlarge the top picture you can verify it. I've never seen that before either.

[Art Hovey]

Isn't that a 10J body?

[roweenie]

I will bet that the lettering on that engraving was NOT done by one of the Stenberg brothers....

[edsel585960]

Isn't that a 10J body?

Looks like 10j body. Serial # would be 1971 per Conn Loyalist. Could we have a Frankenhorn here?

[Tom Coffey]

It is hard (at least for me) to see, but that engraving does not look "factory" to me...

How does it play?

[opus37]

I'm still confused by the "body by" etching on the bell. It looks factory or someone is really good at adding such things. I think it is older than the '70's. The guy I got it from got it in 1968 and it was old then. It does have a P in front of the serial number. That's why I think it might be Pan Am and 1927. There are people here more knowledgeable than me on identification. It looks like the bell ring is factory. Based on patina, the bell looks like it goes with the horn. I don't think it is a frankentuba. Other than the serial number, I have not found any other marks on the body of the horn.
I've only tried it a couple of times. The spit valve cork is missing so I used a tissue to plug the hole enough to try it. It sounds really good to me. Nice full sound. Easy to play. I contacted my repair guy. He likes these projects. I'll get it restored to playing condition and then give it a real test.

[roweenie]

I don't know, but the bell situation seems odd to me.

1 - it looks as though the original name has been buffed off

2 - the extreme bottom of the engraving is hidden under the bell flare ferrule



My guess is the bell flare is a replacement. I also don't think this matters one iota, as long as it plays well

[edsel585960]

I don't know, but the bell situation seems odd to me.

1 - it looks as though the original name has been buffed off

2 - the extreme bottom of the engraving is hidden under the bell flare ferrule



My guess is the bell flare is a replacement. I also don't think this matters one iota, as long as it plays well

Ditto. If it plays well just enjoy it! The patina can be deceiving. Check out the before and after pics of my 10j. It was made in 1970 but looked 90 years old before I hit it with 20$ worth of silver polish. http://s1029.photobucket.com/user/edsel ... t=3&page=1" target="_blank Again, if it plays well and reasonably in tune don't sweat the small stuff and honk away.

[opus37]

Most of what has been posted here makes sense except the age. It has to be older than the 1970's. The horn was last transferred in 1968. It was old at that time. In looking at the loyalist page and taking into account that there is a P prior to the serial number, I believe it is a 1927 pan am horn. The consensus is the bell has been put together from previous bells and the body looks like a 10J. The good news is it sounds really good. So, was there a Pan Am version of a 10J in 1927? Could it be a 6 or 7J?

[edsel585960]

http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments ... 1660XX.jpg" target="_blank Not quite the same but getting closer. No model specification but made in 1919. Your horn could be a version of the 6 or 7j. The 3rd valve slide really doesn't look "10j ish" enough to be a 10j. The bodies were very similar on the 6,7 and 10 j's. I'm no expert for sure.

[opus37]

I have been doing more research on this horn. I don't think this is a 6, 7, or 10 J. It does not have the characteristic first valve loop of the Wonder Horn design. It does have a Pan American serial number from 1927. My current best guess is it's a 68J Pan American which has been modified to accept a recording bell. I'm not sure where the bell came from but it is 20 inches in diameter and the engraving says Conn. The bell could be from anything in the 1930 to 1960 time range. My guess is that it is earlier than later. I'm hoping someone here has better information. Any comment?