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I have been informed I need to put a wishlist for a school bid together and I need to do it fast. This forum has helped A LOT already just with the search function.

First things first, I saw a comment in one of the threads about the irony of pushing "small shank euphoniums in concert band and large shank baritones in marching band." This struck a bit of a chord, and I do think whether I choose small shank or large, I should try to keep it consistent if possible.

My rationale is that I definitely want the advanced players using 4v large shank concert euphoniums, and if I get large shank marching baritones, that will keep things consistent for my best players.

Now the question is... do I want to go one step further and find a large shank student baritone? Would this be a good idea? Do they even exist? Should I just give them intermediate 4-valve instruments that happen to be cheaper (maybe kings for advanced band and jupiters for the beginners?). Discuss.

58mark wrote:I like the king for All levels. I could play any euphonium I want to, and I play the king 2280

I agree with Mark. The 2280 (with its large shank mpc) has a good - big sound without having to spend the money on getting a compensator. The Yamaha 321 has a good tone and intonation, but it's a small shank.

Rick F wrote:

58mark wrote:I like the king for All levels. I could play any euphonium I want to, and I play the king 2280

I agree with Mark. The 2280 (with its large shank mpc) has a good - big sound without having to spend the money on getting a compensator. The Yamaha 321 has a good tone and intonation, but it's a small shank.

Fair enough! Ideally I'd like something with the pricepoint of the student Yamaha that came with a large shank, but maybe I can't win them all.

bloke wrote:You can get very well-made 4-valve compensating euphoniums with stainless steel pistons...even silver plated (ok...with large shank mouthpiece receivers...whatever...) for under $1000.

If that's so, then by all means name drop a brand you have personal experience with. I know saxophones more than I know brass, and there are altos that can be had for under 1k that outplay most pro horns. Many of these are sold only in small shops and not well known. There are others from major stencil companies that are more than 2500 that are made with crap metal.

I've seen a little of this in the brass shop too. Some major, well-referenced Chinese tubas have come through the shop, well liked by their players, but a closer look at the rotary linkages... yikes!

So it's not all that cut and dry. Plus, you're right about horn for dollar if you're buying for you. But school boards and donors want to buy name brands. And they're only gonna shell out for whatever it is once, so better to have a name brand with part still supported by factories and dealer networks than a horn from a company where you can't get ahold of everybody.

If I had a blank check to buy the very best instruments for my kids, most of them would probably be used, and purchased as needed and as they became available. But that's not how school systems work most of the time so I gotta roll with it.

58mark wrote:Mack brass is a name brand. It's the name you use when you want a really nice compensating euphonium for $1000

I agree. I own a Mack Brass Euphonium and have had it for over 6 months now. I really like it. Plays very well in tune. The stainless steel pistons only require regular cleaning to get the lapping compound etc. out of the horn. They are smooth valves. I did replace the springs and felts and had it chemically cleaned when I bought it. It is a solidly built horn as well that I think would hold up in a school situation.

Large shank doesn't "do" anything, beyond allowing large shank mouthpieces. Manufacturers usually say small shank mouthpieces are the same, just with a shorter backbore. They might top out around the 51D size.

YEP-321 is the classic student euphonium, if that's the one you're turning your nose at. I wouldn't pass up a set of YEP-321 over the shank detail.

^ This above post says nicely what the OP needs to hear.

TheGoyWonder wrote:Large shank doesn't "do" anything, beyond allowing large shank mouthpieces. Manufacturers usually say small shank mouthpieces are the same, just with a shorter backbore. They might top out around the 51D size.

YEP-321 is the classic student euphonium, if that's the one you're turning your nose at. I wouldn't pass up a set of YEP-321 over the shank detail.

I second this.

YEP–321 is the ideal intermediate horn, and you can start a beginner on it. An actual baritone will be easier for a beginner as it's less horn to fill-up. As far as mouthpieces, start them on a 6 1/2 AL (not a 12C) and graduate them to a 51D after a year or two as they get stronger. DO NOT start them on a large bore/shank horn.

Besson BE162 for a three valve and BE165 for a four valve. Both have large receivers, water catchers, and plastic coated springs top and bottom. You won't find another horn with these features at student or performance price points. The three and one system (three up and one to the side) is the standard for professional euphoniums, so if you are considering a four valve horn, this is the way to go because when the student decides on a professional horn, that is what they will be using.