TubeNet

So, I enjoy browsing the for sale section of this forum a lot to see what tubas go up for sale and what tubas generally don't. I also have noticed that some tubas (for example, a Miraphone 186 {post 1970's}) sell a lot faster and easier than others. What makes a tuba sellable, whether it be new, used, or in bits and pieces?

Pictures are important, and the ad needs enough text information to consider the deal.

I read many ads and bought two horns on the forum. Both were from following two sellers who went through a series of very desirable horns. I watched and waited and got two nice horns at attractive prices (still own one of them). If I needed a CC horn, there's one for sale now I would jump on, (followed that seller through a number of horns too) but two keys is enough for me.

The horn I bought new is a B&S, and I had that brand on a bucket list.

What sells a used tuba to me? A text description in musician's terms is a good start. Tell me about the intonation tendencies, general character of the sound, valve compression, repaired damage, repairs that need to be made, modifications, recent service performed on the instrument--that kind of stuff. Telling me that "It's in good condition for its age" with few specifics makes me wonder if the listing is from an antiques dealer, not a fellow musician.

What sold me on the Holton that I play? Matt Walters at Dillon Music played it for me over the phone--and I had that "AHA--That's the ONE!" reaction to what I heard. I knew I had a winner right then and there. Hearing a few well-played phrases can answer questions that a thousand words cannot.

When you stop to think of it there several factors (actually quite few) for different situations:
If it peaks your interest then you might wind up being a buyer. So many different interests in the players.

"Such a deal" priced very low and something that would be easy to flip.

"Historical instrument" one played by a celebrated musician or in a famous band or a collectable by a rare maker.

"Wall Hanger" Well...good for hanging on the wall ... OR ... making that tuba mailbox.

"Unique and modified" something that has added improvements, bells and whistles, ergonomic modifications.

"Cool looking" just looks like ... well .... cool.

"New and shiny" For the neat freaks.

"Vintage with character" gives the illusion that the player has commensurate experience.

"Frankensteins" Attracts attention in a humble sort of ostentatious way.

Various finishes that have a certain appeal:
Bright Silver
Satin Silver
Silver with Gold highlights
Lacquer
Satin lacquer
Colored lacquer
Brushed finish
Special engraving

Various mechanics:
Top action
Front action
Rotary
Piston
Combination
Compensating
Slide triggers, springs, push rods etc.
Modular: removable parts
Big finger buttons
Decorative inlay
Detachable bell collars
Adjustable gap receivers
Adjustable leadpipes
Clock spring vs Open spring levers
Special water keys (Amato, Joy, Pollard, Saturn)

Valves:
Stainless
Monel
Standard nickel plate
Hollow rotors
MAW
Top loading rotors
Heavy valve caps.

Material:
Brass
Gold Brass
Red Brass
Nickel Silver
Combination
Fiberglass
Carbon Fiber
ABS

"A 6/4 York CC BAT" for under 5K


OH!!!!!! BTW: Is it a good player?????

Always ask for $1000 more than you want to get. People will ALWAYS ask you to sell it to them for a lower price. In the event you get somebody who wants to pay you for it at your price, hey you just made a $1000!

It has to be something that people *want*.

No offense to the people currently selling them, but it's pretty clear to me that nobody wants a couple-year-old Chinese 6-valve F tuba with complicated intonation. $1000/obo is a disturbingly low price for such a new tuba, and any other horn on the planet would sell quickly at that price. But it's not selling, because nobody wants it. Not yet, at least.

That said, there's always a price at which it's likely to sell, and the unsold tubas are priced higher than that number.

For example, a few-year-old Miraphone 186 for $7,000 (a fair price given depreciation from new price) is not going to sell quickly, it's not a high demand item. A fully(?) depreciated 40-year old 186 is an ideal combination of quality and price for many people.

A few-year old PT6 is high demand, and will easily sell for a price close(r) to the new price.

You also have to consider the market, and what else costs the same price. If you're selling a few-year-old tuba for $10k, there are a LOT of options for that amount of money, and a LOT of options for a little more and certainly for less money. The $10k horns take a while to sell, because of the number of options, and (of course), that's just a ton of money. Let's face it, we're desensitized to it, but still, that's a TON of money.

A $10k tuba that nobody wants will never sell for $10k, and will need to see price reductions until it sells.

Rambling thoughts...

[quote="bort"]It has to be something that people *want*.

But then, in sales, many people can be le d to believe what they "want" by a talented and manipulative salesperson. Benj. Franklin "a fool and a penny are soon parted." I've gone through that at least once in a lifetime of buying used cars.

If it is not priced right it will not sell. But there are treasure hunters out there that believe their horns are worth the "crown jewels" and will keep listing it at that higher price and, sometimes, someone will eventually pop for it if they want it enough. Finding that one person is the trick.

anonymous4 wrote:Always ask for $1000 more than you want to get. People will ALWAYS ask you to sell it to them for a lower price. In the event you get somebody who wants to pay you for it at your price, hey you just made a $1000!

Personally, I would avoid that unless it's a very high priced tuba. The difference between $4,000 and $5,000 feels like a whole lot more than the difference between $14,000 and $15,000... and people shopping with a max of $4,000 don't always look up to the $5,000 horns. People can also be shy to offer -- you might sell that horn in 1 day at $4,000, but it might take 2 months to sell it at $5,000 (or get someone who will offer you less for it). In terms of being a seller, yeah, sure, shoot the moon and see what you can get, but be prepared to be patient.

I think the best bet for selling it (and selling it IS the whole point) is to decide what's the lowest price you'll accept, knock a few hundred off for that, and then make that the (firm) price. We all want to make as much as possible, but realistically, a few hundred dollars isn't worth NOT selling it.

PaulMaybery wrote:

bort wrote:It has to be something that people *want*.

But then, in sales, many people can be le d to believe what they "want" by a talented and manipulative salesperson. Benj. Franklin "a fool and a penny are soon parted." I've gone through that at least once in a lifetime of buying used cars.

If it is not priced right it will not sell. But there are treasure hunters out there that believe their horns are worth the "crown jewels" and will keep listing it at that higher price and, sometimes, someone will eventually pop for it if they want it enough. Finding that one person is the trick.

All very true. There's one tuba on eBay that has been reposted for years, and I'm still not sure it ever sold. For a private seller though, most people don't have that kind of patience.

I think of it like real estate... the longer it sits on the market, the worse it looks, and needs a price cut (or increase!) to attract a different set of buyers.

lost wrote:Funny. I actually appreciate less verbal descriptors. At least I know nothing was promised to me and to expect anything. What sounds big to you sounds stuffy to me. What sounds out of tune to you is just fine for me. Show me nice pictures too.

And if i hear one more time how big a horn sounds for its size, i think I'm going to scream.

Sorry if I made you scream. What else can you say about a 3 valve 991 http://fortmyers.craigslist.org/lee/msg/5351947285.html" target="_blank

GOOD photos: not taken by your buddy in the top row of the auditorium while you play your junior recital; not blurry phone photos taken surrounded by piles of your dirty clothes; not photos of your community band ("hey, I'm the one on the end, 65 feet away"); not "email for photos," but GOOD posted photos of what you're selling that shows everything it is (or isn't).

GOOD description: tell me about what I'm looking at. What is it? What's good about it? What's wrong with it? What makes yours better, the same, or worse than any other example?

PRICE: post it. If I have to contact you just to find out the price of what you're selling, I'll probably pass unless it is a one-in-a-million item I've just got to have and have been shopping for already. But I'll probably pass. Plus, do you really want dozens (hundreds?) of emails and PMs that all say "how much?"

Stuff that doesn't matter: I don't care if you used it in "all settings." I don't care if you played Prokofiev 5 on it in community orchestra. I don't care how much you paid for it, how much you spent on the gig bag, or how much the case cost. I don't care if you had it chemically cleaned a year ago. I don't care why you're selling it and I certainly don't care that you're "upgrading" to something else. I also don't care what your buddies think of it ("hey guys...if I hadn't just bought my Splatmaster 5000 I'd buy this tuba instead!")

Tom wrote:GOOD photos

Rise to the challenge of actually taking a good photograph. Good tips in Some suggestions for those providing photos, 2008.

PRICE: post it.

... and I don't know about you, but for me, you better put the lowest price you feel OK about. I think that's far more likely to lead to a sale, than expecting someone to contact you about a lower price.

Some instruments have more general appeal than others. But there are excellent instruments that for whatever reason appeal to a limited market, and it's a matter of waiting for the right person to come along. A 186 is the opposite of that; it does not appeal to the specialist market unless it has particularly special qualities, but it has broad appeal at the right price point.

As to lowering a price incessantly until you bribe someone to buy it, well, that's a way to sell something fast, maybe, but it undermines the value proposition. I have paid a lot for tubas, and I've gotten some really good deals. I find very little correlation between those two attributes. The cheaper tubas I have bought have frequently enough still been a disappointment and not such a good deal, while the more expensive ones have been more likely to be worth owning at any price and have provided good value despite the higher price.

Rick "who has a tuba for sale that will not be subject to incessant price reductions, and if you want it, you have to make an offer" Denney

Donn wrote:... and I don't know about you, but for me, you better put the lowest price you feel OK about. I think that's far more likely to lead to a sale, than expecting someone to contact you about a lower price.

So, you expect sellers to do the buyer's negotiating for them? Hmmm.

Rick "who, nevertheless, followed your advice" Denney

It's a make and model that's good for you and your playing needs, and it plays really well - intonation, slotting, resonance and tone. It's in relatively good shape (I could care less what it looks like, as much as what it sounds like when I play it).

Adam

Rick Denney wrote:So, you expect sellers to do the buyer's negotiating for them? Hmmm.

I don't expect any negotiating. If you put too high a price on something, that's an error. Not an uncommon error, and it might fall to a prospective buyer to suggest a more realistic price, but for me, only if it's a gross error and the seller is unlikely to be able to sell it at the asking price. If it isn't so clear, then why should he or she sell it to me for less?

If it's an old tuba, say that Arnold Jacobs may have owned it, or one exactly like it, or that at one time he may have played it and said it was great.