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What are the earliest piston F tubas? Although there are a lot of options now, I can't really think of any that pre-date either the 45slp or the B&S "just slap the big valves on it" F tubas.

I'm sure I'm missing something. As I've said before, the piston F tuba is kind F an odd combination to me (like the rotary CC, but in reverse).

Highams pre-1900

Besson made piston F tubas from the early 1900’s

Boosey at least since 1923

Klaus

Bill Bell ha one custom built: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=37575" target="_blank" target="_blank

If we include the "Berliner" valve as a form of piston, then all the way back to the early decades of the 19th century and some of the first tubas. We could probably stretch that to include "Vienna" valves and "Stotzel" valves. Some were referred to as valved ophecleides or bombardons.

Hallo Bort,

the first "Basstuba" from Moritz's workshop in Berlin 1835 was built with Berliner Pumpen valves, somewhat similar to piston valves.



While this original is in a Stockholm museum, you are more than welcome to try an exact replica at our shop next time you are in Berlin.

However, to answer your question, many makers over the years have made one off F tubas with piston valve sets. Mass production versions are a somewhat more modern concept. If you think about it, the fast majority of F tubas were built and played in the German market, where rotary valves were in fashion. The countries that used piston valves on their tubas, such as the USA and England, tended to build bass tubas in Eb, whereas the French went the Saxhorn route...

Best regards,
TheBerlinerTuba

In the modern era,I would say yam 621

Thanks for the replies. I have to admit, I wasn't thinking of older styles of valves, but that is extremely interesting and relevant.

Berliner, you hit the main point I was thinking about, the differences in valve type and country preference. I'm not totally sure when F tuba became popular here in the US (the 60s or 70s?), but it was nearly exclusively rotary tubas. Then somewhere between there and today, mass market piston F tubas became a thing.

Maybe the better question is, what are some of the earliest mass produced F tubas?

(PS, I will take you up on that offer next time I'm there... Possibly next December?)

Didn't Helleberg play F in American orchestras before he learned abiut the CC?

Didn't Boston use F tuba exclusively until after 1960?

Klaus

Klaus touched on the point that UK orchestral pros used British made Piston F's (usually Barlow type 5v 3+2 models) all the way up to the 70s when the Eb gained traction.
These were custom made in small numbers of course...

imperialbari wrote:
Didn't Boston use F tuba exclusively until after 1960?


Klaus

Kilton Vinal Smith, Kruspe F tuba

Eugene Adam preceded Mr Smith in Boston and, like Mr Smith, he played other low brass first. But he seems to have used a York C and one of those Courtois little 6 valve C's which he referred to as "the percolator". There is a picture of him with both in Don Stauffer's Treatise on the Tuba as well as in an old TUBA Journal article titled Tubists of the Boston Symphony as well as pics with K Vynal Smith playing baritone in some kind of brass setting. My teacher was at New England Conservatory for Mr Smith's last year with the BSO and was one of his students. When Leinsdorf came in as conductor he wanted a lot more sound from the tuba so Mr Smith did switch to C but it didn't work out so he retired and Chester Schmitz came to town.

bort wrote:What are the earliest piston F tubas? Although there are a lot of options now, I can't really think of any that pre-date either the 45slp or the B&S "just slap the big valves on it" F tubas.

I'm sure I'm missing something. As I've said before, the piston F tuba is kind F an odd combination to me (like the rotary CC, but in reverse).

Aside from the antique examples and the small Besson/Boosey tubas already cited, about the earliest "modern" piston F tuba was probably the small Yamaha, the YFB-621. This preceded the large Yamaha F, YFB-822, by several years. The 45-SLP was developed well after the Yamaha tubas were available and the other M-W/B&S piston F tubas were all developed AFTER the 45 SLP was introduced to the public in about 1999 or 2000. There is also the PT-10P, and I'm not completely sure where that falls in the timeline of modern piston F tubas. Mostly the piston F tuba thing has taken off in the last 20-25 years in the United States.

Tom wrote:

bort wrote:What are the earliest piston F tubas? Although there are a lot of options now, I can't really think of any that pre-date either the 45slp or the B&S "just slap the big valves on it" F tubas.

I'm sure I'm missing something. As I've said before, the piston F tuba is kind F an odd combination to me (like the rotary CC, but in reverse).

Aside from the antique examples and the small Besson/Boosey tubas already cited, about the earliest "modern" piston F tuba was probably the small Yamaha, the YFB-621. This preceded the large Yamaha F, YFB-822, by several years. The 45-SLP was developed well after the Yamaha tubas were available and the other M-W/B&S piston F tubas were all developed AFTER the 45 SLP was introduced to the public in about 1999 or 2000. There is also the PT-10P, and I'm not completely sure where that falls in the timeline of modern piston F tubas. Mostly the piston F tuba thing has taken off in the last 20-25 years in the United States.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was thinking too, but wondered if I had missed something.