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Hi I have B&S 5100 WG-L tuba(PT-15) which i bought from Meinl-Weston player Krzysztof Mucha three yrs ago.Instrument was produced in 2006 and after 9yrs she have few dents(one big on beel) and big problem with lacquer under right and left hand and in another places where I'm touching her when i'm playing.Now I wanna take it back to the Germany factory and have full renovation with laquer(it's gonna coast about 1500$) but i would like to change colour of this instrument from "normal gold" to darker gold like here has got Roland:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdxhOkd5LoQ" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

but i dont know about sound change and is that possible i never before have lacquer tuba 2nd time and dont know whats gonna change in sound,articulation etc.?

Here You can hear how this instrument sound in Capriccio K.Penderecki and in tuba Quartet(all players in this quartet are from Poland and we are in Melton,B&S team )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia1W_ZXa6E0" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZQQeu7YySU" target="_blank" target="_blank

Now I wanna take it back to the Germany factory and have full renovation with lacquer(it's gonna coast about 1500$)

Does that include transporting the tuba and is it a baked on finish? That seems like a lot of money, but it's a pretty nice horn. Locally, they will do a restoration and re-lacquer (spray) for $650. http://www.haasmusic.com/brass.html

bloke wrote:You might search the OLD tubenet BBS archives for threads entitled "lacquer vs. silver".

http://www.chisham.com//tips/index.html

Thanks for answear but i dont wanna know diffrence between silver and lacquer tuba,I wanna know how the horn sounds before and after 2nd lacquering

vespa50sp wrote:

Now I wanna take it back to the Germany factory and have full renovation with lacquer(it's gonna coast about 1500$)

Does that include transporting the tuba and is it a baked on finish? That seems like a lot of money, but it's a pretty nice horn. Locally, they will do a restoration and re-lacquer (spray) for $650. http://www.haasmusic.com/brass.html

I dont know how its looks with transport because I'm from Poland and I will go to the factory with tuba so i dont need to know about it .You asked what this price include,I told to the Krzysztof Mucha(he's my teacher and good friend) that I wanna make new instrument from old tuba .Instrument's going to the orginal B&S factory so they will change old parts of tuba like valves or silver rings under right hand for new.They will put off(sorry for gramma) old lacquer and put on new so I'm gonna have new B&S 5100 WGL for 1500$(new tuba coast about 15000 $)

I asked about colour change - is that possible from normal gold to "darker" gold like Szentapli has got?

Two things:

1)Why not ask the factory if they can change the laquer colour for you? They are the one doing the work- not a bunch of tuba afficianados (i was gonna write 'nerds')

2) the change in sound from changing the colour of the laquer... Let me get this straight- the factory is doing a total rebuild of a tuba, including replacing many parts/ buffing off metal / brazing on new bits etc, - of course it's going to sound different! If it didn't you would send it back.

Besson900,

You may not realize it BUT Bloke's first response to search the archives was far more helpful than you think.

I'll be a bit more direct:
1) The missing lacquer makes no difference to how it will play NONE. Worn off lacquer will make no difference to how it will play NONE(unless the lacquer is worn because you practiced).
2) Lacquer color makes NO difference in how the tuba will play. NONE. Stick with clear(what you have), it's a lot easier to maintain long term.
3) The $1500 price quoted for an overhaul at the factory sounds *very* reasonable to me.
4) The $650 quoted price is far less than any shop should charge for that job. I would assume air-dry lacquer and an ok from a distance job.

Even more to the point:
Your horn isn't old and worn out. It might benefit from a clean, valve alignment, dents removed, and general lookover BUT that is ALL you should do. Enjoy your tuba. It's a good one.

Not sure if the OP is asking if the color of the lacquer will change the sound, but rather, if the process of buffing and relacquering will change anything...

It might, it might not. I don't remember the specifics, but there was a York copy that received a full overhaul and new silver plate. The owner said it played differently afterwards and sold it. I wouldn't risk it if you like it, but (obviously) it's your horn.

The $650 quoted price is far less than any shop should charge for that job. I would assume air-dry lacquer and an ok from a distance job.

Yup, air dry lacquer. For a professional player making a living, sending a $10k plus horn back to a German factory is probably the way to go. But for mere mortals playing in a HS, college or community band, paying for kids college and driving cars pushing 200k miles, HAAS is the cat's meow. It's in an old strip mall, in an old part of town, off the beaten path. But many of the High Schools in Mn send their horns to Haas to get fixed up. You see Sousa's lined up after the end of a marching season. I've heard that a major chain with it's own repair shops ship hard to do stuff to them also.

They knocked the dents out of my 100 year old Helicon, flushed it and replaced a rotten, stuck slide for $108.

Maybe not contours quality, but the Hass repairs are a super value for the $$. I've been toying with the idea of asking if I can hang around the shop and apprentice (do the cleaning) when I retire just to learn how they actually do all that magical work.

I probably will be sending them a challenge in a month or two. I'll post before and after then : )

I agree that your horn does not sound like nit needs the overhaul. After 9 years your valves should still be perfectly fine. If you want to have them work on cosmetics, go for it, but the rest seems like a waste of money--I cannot see how a 9 year old horn has worn out valves.

The darker the finish the darker the sound. Everyone knows that.

kmorgancraw wrote:The darker the finish the darker the sound. Everyone knows that.

Thanks for answears,You writed a lot of about price,I think it is perfect deal because how I said this tuba will be like new,here You can see how the horn is looks like.I'm practicing about 6-8 hour every day and I'm playing a lot of jobs so it's not looks very good :/

Here u can see fotos of this tuba:
http://s650.photobucket.com/user/besson ... ent&page=1" target="_blank

Ha ha, I sure expected it would be worse than that! I personally wouldn't want my lacquer replaced frequently. It does involve some very serious polishing ("buffing") that wears down the brass, and there might be no harm in that, but as mentioned above, sometimes it does have consequences, so there's a risk. I understand that your situation is different from mine, the appearance of your tuba is clearly important, and maybe it looks worse than the pictures show, but I think it's possible that no one really notices but you.

I would also look into the possibility of a spot repair, simply replacing the lacquer where it's missing. With the same color of lacquer. I think you will be disappointed by a dark lacquer, if such a thing really exists - the darker tubas you see are probably made of a darker brass with more copper and less zinc, eh? Imagine what your tuba would look like now, worn as it is, if its lacquer had been dark.

I think it is perfect deal because how I said this tuba will be like new,here You can see how the horn is looks like.I'm practicing about 6-8 hour every day and I'm playing a lot of jobs so it's not looks very good :/

Given the workout that horn goes through, the factory job is probably the better choice. Plus it's your horn, do whatever you feel good about

Plus it will be shiney


Merry Christmas and have good New Year.

pecktime wrote:(i was gonna write 'nerds')

TNFJ = TubeNet Freak Jury

The bell is shiny... I wouldn't change anything!

That said, appearance are more important to some people more than others. No one is right or wrong, and for that kind of work, you can be sure that the factory can do a good job of it!

Triple thick lacquer

Just realize that a change in amount of lacquer can, and likely will, affect the playing characteristics of the tuba. Maybe for the better, maybe not. I will never add more lacquer to my PT 10, 31 years old. It plays better now than it did new.

Colored lacquer is no problem, won't affect sound more than any other lacquer.

Unless the valves are shot, save your money.