Trombone and Tuba in one Part

[swillafew]

The "Blue Danube Waltz" has 3rd bone and tuba on the same page. Direction of stems indicates nothing, but two stems on one note head are present at times. Divisi is labeled with the names of the instruments a few times. On the first note it says "Pos" (trombone).

You could interpret this as the tuba player hardly playing at all. I had an idea tonight that there might be a convention like the 'cellos and basses reading one part and octaves sounding throughout.

A chamber orchestra is doing it (I'm a guest) and my instincts were different than the conductor's.

What would y'all do?

[thevillagetuba]

I have played this a coup of times and the tuba really does play just a few notes. In larger community groups I have been asked to play the entire part due to a long drive to sub where the conductor felt bad (this was the only piece that needed tuba), but my understanding is that only the bass trombone plays like 90% of it.

[Mark]

In the edition I have played, the stem direction is used. The tuba plays very little.

[PaulMaybery]

Hey John! On that particular waltz, for the benefit of others, there is only a bass trombone and tuba part. There were subsequently 2 trombones created as ad libitum. For the most part it is relatively clear how the BT and the Tuba are notated. Much of the part is marked "solo" for the BTrb. When I looked through it, the coda seemed to present the issue as to who plays those single notes, (usually in louder sections.) In looking at the score in those closing measures it is full orchestration so I would contend that the tuba should be part of the "tutti" effect. As a historically informed conductor, I would understand that, and as a player who is also a conductor, I would probably not ask the conductor. For as in the medical profession, there are great doctors who are brilliant in their specialize field and some who are not so great and more generally informed, but not specialists. Historically informed performance is a rather specialized field and not all conductors are privy to certain information on performance practice, or where to get the information. Also, your F tuba would be the appropriate instrument in this context. One of those 6 valve Vienna F tubas even better, but who on this side of the Atlantic has one to loan you for this. I'm doing Tales from the Vienna Woods in 2 weeks with the Civic and will use my F. Actually on that one, almost the entire part is doubled with the BT. which in a cavalier sort of manner, makes me think that Jr. really did not have much special use for the tuba other than an afterthought double and a little more weight in a larger orchestra.

[timayer]

When I performed it under a conductor whose opinion I particularly respected, he was very clear that tuba only played when 1. Specifically marked, or 2. The note had two stems. Otherwise it was just the trombone.

Disappointing, but still better than the New World Symphony.

[PaulMaybery]

When we consider the dimensions and design of the Vienna tuba (compact sound with a bit of bark), it is very imaginable that it fits in the sound pocket with the Vienna bass trombone quite nicely. I'm sure where it is marked tuba or bs trb, it is of some import to respect the composers wishes. Where it is ambiguous, we need to make an assumption (at best) as to what to do. When it does not double the more soloistic bass trombone (as in the coda) it is simply a double or reinforcement of the bass line. Should not be a big deal. The texture is already filled to the max with the remaining orchestra. What is the point of leaving out the tuba (as the only instrument not playing) a that place?

So to the credibility of conductors: Are their words gospel?

In musicology, we often refer to Strauss, Suppe, and company as "Trivial Musik." "Light Music" might be a more fair term as the former carries a derogatory connotation.
Jr's orchestration compared to say Brahms, Mahler or Wagner was rather "textbook" and fit the general fashion of the dance orchestras. There were of course intended redundancies in the orchestration so that most could be played with a violin and piano, then add what you wish up to a full symphony. Conductors have opinions,and even when they don't, they will form one when you ask them something. I know, I am one. And I think I can often wind up being a "pain in the ***" when I sit in the orchestra. It's hard to subjugate to another conductor, for "of course" he couldn't possibly know what I do." I try very hard to stay quiet and just play the part and not get in the way. After all, I agreed to sit in the back row for that gig.

Mabes: (who has extremely high standards for how conductors are informed, and when he respects one, he becomes a devoted liege and servant. And yes this does happen.) And of course, in all humility, I know I also am one of the conductors for whom other conductors have contempt. "Mea culpa."

[DouglasJB]

Another piece similar is the Champagne Polka where it is only 1st trombone and Tuba, I played this and Blue Danube in the same concert. Along with the Peer Gant Suite, lots of sitting

[swillafew]

Nice to hear from you Paul; I was lucky to have good teachers.

I think this one conductor is kind of flummoxed by seeing an instrument he's not accustomed to having present. I didn't play (like it said) and he got on me about it. I asked him where he wanted to me to play (I would double a goodly amount) and he sort of scolded me in place of a clear answer. Next rehearsal, I changed it up and played a lot more and I think he's done worrying about it.

I was using an F for the whole show, and to my surprise this Sinfonia programmed a Star Wars Medley. The part is marked "Basses", and has divisi in most of it. I was asked to play the lower notes, so I came back with the BBb. I want to hear somebody double tongue the low F's. I hang my hat on my tonguing and I wimp out at the desired tempo around Ab.