Upgrading from the helleberg
- PaulMaybery
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
I seem to forget as much as I remember these days. A few years ago in a conversation the topic of Helleberg rims came up. The point of the discussion was what is referred to as a "Chicago" rim verses an "Indiana" rim. One being rather flat the other more rounded. I can not remember which was which, nor the reference to the terminology. Any sages out there who can fill me in? (Conn, Geib, Schilke, Jacobs ?????)
Wessex 5/4 CC "Wyvern"
Wessex 4/4 F "Berg"
Wessex Cimbasso F
Mack Euphonium
Mack Bass Trombone
Conn 5V Double Bell Euphonium (casually for sale to an interested party)
Wessex 4/4 F "Berg"
Wessex Cimbasso F
Mack Euphonium
Mack Bass Trombone
Conn 5V Double Bell Euphonium (casually for sale to an interested party)
Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
I just got my part for the Elgar transcription of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue. The highest note for tuba is an Eb above the staff. I guess you can't blame Bach, so it must be Elgar that didn't know what he was doing. I also played the Shostakovich 12th Symphony earlier this season. It does down to a low D. So, Shostakovich also did not know what he was doing.Stryk wrote:If an arranger/composer knows what they are doing, they won't write anything above middle C or lower than EE.
- Billy M.
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
Elgar, in particular British fashion, probably wrote the tuba part with an Eb tuba in mind.bloke wrote:1/ Great composers (just like great performers) sometimes take risks.Mark wrote:I just got my part for the Elgar transcription of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue. The highest note for tuba is an Eb above the staff. I guess you can't blame Bach, so it must be Elgar that didn't know what he was doing. I also played the Shostakovich 12th Symphony earlier this season. It does down to a low D. So, Shostakovich also did not know what he was doing.Stryk wrote:If an arranger/composer knows what they are doing, they won't write anything above middle C or lower than EE.
2/ Typically, I don't imagine truly great composers thinking of any-piece-in-particular (during its composition process) as "Grade 2", "Grade 4", or "Grade 6"...eh?
Romans 3:23-24
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
- iiipopes
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
+1!bloke wrote:Some cup shapes seem to generally offer better chances (than some others) at more pleasant-sounding "hues" (??) of tone production...particularly when matched (trial-and-error) to a player and an instrument.
Jupiter JTU1110, RT-82.
"Real" Conn 36K.
"Real" Conn 36K.
- Worth
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
Of the four mouthpieces which remain in my collection, each offers its own unique "hue" without a doubt. Same player, same horn. The Stofer Geib is extremely mellow, almost muffled, and seems, to me, to possess the least core or clarity (pardon if I'm not using the correct descriptors). The GW Bayamo is the brightest sounding of the bunch, perhaps too much core or clarity. Not as complex or interesting a hue. The complexity and interest of sound (overtones?) increases with the Blokepiece Symphony, with and without Profundo, but even moreso with the PT-50, the PT-50 offering more punch and drive when I need it than the Blokepiece which is on the mellower side of the two. Currently using the PT-50 which seems very well matched to my PT clone horn and with which I receive the best feedback.bloke wrote:Some cup shapes seem to generally offer better chances (than some others) at more pleasant-sounding "hues" (??) of tone production...particularly when matched (trial-and-error) to a player and an instrument.
2014 Wisemann 900 with Laskey 30H
~1980 Cerveny 4V CC Piggy
1935 Franz Schediwy BBb
1968 Conn 2J (thinking of selling)
~1980 Cerveny 4V CC Piggy
1935 Franz Schediwy BBb
1968 Conn 2J (thinking of selling)
- Donn
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
While it would be fun to join in the chest-beating and say it doesn't matter what mouthpiece I chuck in the old tuba, maybe I could play as well on something made of a soup can and a soda straw and with a half hour's practice produce the same sweet tones as ever ...
... I'm even more pleased to confirm that the Faxx "HB" Helleberg is a delight to play, with a clear, full tone that I think puts my other mouthpieces in the shade all around. I've been suggesting that people buy this mouthpiece for quite some time, because economical, Helleberg, what's not to like? ... now I'm kicking myself, should have taken my own advice years ago.
Is the rim narrow and flat, uncomfortable for the OP? This I can't say for sure. I don't play with any pressure to speak of, so the fact that it's comfortable for me means little - rims don't bother me much. (Though a really round rim can be particularly tiring for some reason.) I believe the rim might be somewhat optimized, as described above with the photo, but not wide, and it does have a certain flatness without which it wouldn't really be a Helleberg.
... I'm even more pleased to confirm that the Faxx "HB" Helleberg is a delight to play, with a clear, full tone that I think puts my other mouthpieces in the shade all around. I've been suggesting that people buy this mouthpiece for quite some time, because economical, Helleberg, what's not to like? ... now I'm kicking myself, should have taken my own advice years ago.
Is the rim narrow and flat, uncomfortable for the OP? This I can't say for sure. I don't play with any pressure to speak of, so the fact that it's comfortable for me means little - rims don't bother me much. (Though a really round rim can be particularly tiring for some reason.) I believe the rim might be somewhat optimized, as described above with the photo, but not wide, and it does have a certain flatness without which it wouldn't really be a Helleberg.
- J.c. Sherman
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
+1bloke wrote:picture - to me - suggests a "Bach 7"-style rim
Instructor of Tuba & Euphonium, Cleveland State University
Principal Tuba, Firelands Symphony Orchestra
President, Variations in Brass
http://www.jcsherman.net
Principal Tuba, Firelands Symphony Orchestra
President, Variations in Brass
http://www.jcsherman.net
- J.c. Sherman
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
F tuba.Billy M. wrote:If an arranger/composer knows what they are doing, they won't write anything above middle C or lower than EE.
I just got my part for the Elgar transcription of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue. The highest note for tuba is an Eb above the staff. I guess you can't blame Bach, so it must be Elgar that didn't know what he was doing. I also played the Shostakovich 12th Symphony earlier this season. It does down to a low D. So, Shostakovich also did not know what he was doing.
1/ Great composers (just like great performers) sometimes take risks.
2/ Typically, I don't imagine truly great composers thinking of any-piece-in-particular (during its composition process) as "Grade 2", "Grade 4", or "Grade 6"...eh?
Elgar, in particular British fashion, probably wrote the tuba part with an Eb tuba in mind.
Instructor of Tuba & Euphonium, Cleveland State University
Principal Tuba, Firelands Symphony Orchestra
President, Variations in Brass
http://www.jcsherman.net
Principal Tuba, Firelands Symphony Orchestra
President, Variations in Brass
http://www.jcsherman.net
- Billy M.
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
Bass tuba. Beyond that it's semanticsJ.c. Sherman wrote:F tuba.Billy M. wrote:If an arranger/composer knows what they are doing, they won't write anything above middle C or lower than EE.
I just got my part for the Elgar transcription of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue. The highest note for tuba is an Eb above the staff. I guess you can't blame Bach, so it must be Elgar that didn't know what he was doing. I also played the Shostakovich 12th Symphony earlier this season. It does down to a low D. So, Shostakovich also did not know what he was doing.
1/ Great composers (just like great performers) sometimes take risks.
2/ Typically, I don't imagine truly great composers thinking of any-piece-in-particular (during its composition process) as "Grade 2", "Grade 4", or "Grade 6"...eh?
Elgar, in particular British fashion, probably wrote the tuba part with an Eb tuba in mind.
Romans 3:23-24
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
Billy Morris
Rudolf Meinl Model 45, Musikmesse Horn
Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb (19" Bell)
1968 Besson New Standard Eb (15" Bell)
- Peach
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
Yes, but the point is that in Elgar's day it was only the F tuba. Nothing else in British orchestras...Billy M. wrote:Bass tuba. Beyond that it's semanticsJ.c. Sherman wrote:F tuba.Billy M. wrote:If an arranger/composer knows what they are doing, they won't write anything above middle C or lower than EE.
I just got my part for the Elgar transcription of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue. The highest note for tuba is an Eb above the staff. I guess you can't blame Bach, so it must be Elgar that didn't know what he was doing. I also played the Shostakovich 12th Symphony earlier this season. It does down to a low D. So, Shostakovich also did not know what he was doing.
1/ Great composers (just like great performers) sometimes take risks.
2/ Typically, I don't imagine truly great composers thinking of any-piece-in-particular (during its composition process) as "Grade 2", "Grade 4", or "Grade 6"...eh?
Elgar, in particular British fashion, probably wrote the tuba part with an Eb tuba in mind.
Peach
- PaulMaybery
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
Billy M. wrote:Bass tuba. Beyond that it's semanticsJ.c. Sherman wrote:F tuba.Billy M. wrote:If an arranger/composer knows what they are doing, they won't write anything above middle C or lower than EE.
I just got my part for the Elgar transcription of Bach's Fantasia and Fugue. The highest note for tuba is an Eb above the staff. I guess you can't blame Bach, so it must be Elgar that didn't know what he was doing. I also played the Shostakovich 12th Symphony earlier this season. It does down to a low D. So, Shostakovich also did not know what he was doing.
1/ Great composers (just like great performers) sometimes take risks.
2/ Typically, I don't imagine truly great composers thinking of any-piece-in-particular (during its composition process) as "Grade 2", "Grade 4", or "Grade 6"...eh?
Elgar, in particular British fashion, probably wrote the tuba part with an Eb tuba in mind.
Choose your equipment accordingly. Orchestra tuba parts have been in that range since the mid 19th century. Wagner, Brahms, Bruckner...
Wessex 5/4 CC "Wyvern"
Wessex 4/4 F "Berg"
Wessex Cimbasso F
Mack Euphonium
Mack Bass Trombone
Conn 5V Double Bell Euphonium (casually for sale to an interested party)
Wessex 4/4 F "Berg"
Wessex Cimbasso F
Mack Euphonium
Mack Bass Trombone
Conn 5V Double Bell Euphonium (casually for sale to an interested party)
- circusboy
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
Schilke Helleberg II
G&W Taku
Schilke 66
I've had the same issues (except for the 4-octave range). My lips still get a bit tired with the Taku, but not as much as with a Conn. I think the SHII is just the ticket for a Helleberg sound/feel while being better for stamina.
G&W Taku
Schilke 66
I've had the same issues (except for the 4-octave range). My lips still get a bit tired with the Taku, but not as much as with a Conn. I think the SHII is just the ticket for a Helleberg sound/feel while being better for stamina.
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- bugler
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
A composer can write as low or as high as they want. Also 4 valve tubas have been a thing since at least the early 1900's. Playing lower than EE (I'm assuming you mean E1), is going to be easy for any tuba with more than 3 valves.Mark wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:40 pmStryk wrote:If an arranger/composer knows what they are doing, they won't write anything above middle C or lower than EE.
MW 195P Fafner - Doug Elliott MP
- iiipopes
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Re: Upgrading from the helleberg
OK, since this Zombie thread has been resurrected, I will update as well. I sold my other tubas about two years ago and purchased a Jupiter BBb JTU1110 tuba, the one after Jupiter implemented Patrick Sheridan's suggestions. Great tuba. But...I didn't like the tone, intonation, or response of any of my mouthpieces. So I sold them all except for my custom 18 from Jim New and my Kelly for outdoors. I found a Conn Helleberg a few years old that has a decent throat, 1.28 cup i.d., and most importantly, a slightly rounded rim similar to a Wick 1, both outer and more importantly inner contour. So if the OP is still looking for a mouthpiece, keep trying out Conn 120S Hellebergs from different years to find one with a rim that is comfortable. As I can attest, also having played the sharp rim versions, they are out there; you just have to look for one.
Jupiter JTU1110, RT-82.
"Real" Conn 36K.
"Real" Conn 36K.