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I own a Hirsbrunner HBS-193 Bb Kaiser tuba, and I'll be doggoned if I can find the serial number. I've pored over that valve body with a flashlight, from every angle. There is a "17" stamped on each of the four casings casing, but that's all.

The lore is that they are on the second valve casing, as they are on piston tubas, but I see nada.

I also read that they are under the model number, but I don't see one of those, either, and I suspect those were placed at the request of the traditional US importer, through whom I don't believe my instrument passed.

Any ideas?

Second question: the lore, which I just researched to answer the above question, sparked by the thread from a day or two ago, also says that the first two or three digits define the year the instrument (or at least the valve body) was made. Was this an old B&M/Nirschl tradition?--I know they supplied piston valves to Hirsbrunner up through the middle 90's. If so, might it apply to my B&M-made York Master? That serial number starts with 66, and 1966 would be completely plausible. Enquiring minds want to know.

Rick "who needs a serial number for Mr. Clarion" Denney

Two thoughts:

Check the horizontal bar that supports the paddle assembly. My old Cerveny has its sn hidden way underneath.

If nothing, get one engraved, on the mouthpiece receiver or something. I had to do that on my old Rudy Meinl, which did not have a factory-done serial number.

Rick Denney wrote:I own a Hirsbrunner HBS-193 Bb Kaiser tuba, and I'll be doggoned if I can find the serial number. I've pored over that valve body with a flashlight, from every angle. There is a "17" stamped on each of the four casings casing, but that's all.

The lore is that they are on the second valve casing, as they are on piston tubas, but I see nada.

I also read that they are under the model number, but I don't see one of those, either, and I suspect those were placed at the request of the traditional US importer, through whom I don't believe my instrument passed.

Any ideas?

Second question: the lore, which I just researched to answer the above question, sparked by the thread from a day or two ago, also says that the first two or three digits define the year the instrument (or at least the valve body) was made. Was this an old B&M/Nirschl tradition?--I know they supplied piston valves to Hirsbrunner up through the middle 90's. If so, might it apply to my B&M-made York Master? That serial number starts with 66, and 1966 would be completely plausible. Enquiring minds want to know.

Rick "who needs a serial number for Mr. Clarion" Denney

It is my understanding that the valves are numbered separately (by their own manufacturer) from the instrument itself. Mine has the serial number on the bell at the back, close by my right ribs as I hold the tuba to play. As it is the Hirsbrunner model number (HBS-390) rather than the importer's number (HB2P), I'm not so sure the importer requested it.

At any rate it does seem sure that, once you find it, you can rely on the first two digits to indicate the year of manufacture, the next one or two to indicate the month in that year, and the last one or two to indicate its place in the series of instruments made in that year.

The relevant part of my email from Mr. Hirsbrunner that makes this clear is this:

The number on the valveset has nothing to do with the year of manufacturing. The number on the bell says, that the instrument was made in October 2005 and is the number 76 instrument made in this year.

I have gone over every square millimeter of the bell. Nada. Is it close to the ferrule? Next to a flange? Adjacent to the leadpipe (I'm hoping not)? This bell has about two acres of silverplate, so a more specific roadmap would be nice. I'm assuming there is a standard location, rather than Mr Hirsbrunner saying, "good luck finding this one, ha ha ha!"

Rick "wondering why it isn't in an obvious place, and repeated in a secret spot for security if necessary" Denney

Inside the bell?

bort wrote:Inside the bell?

Nope.

Rick "who thought of that, in some desperation" Denney

I also had a Rudy Meinl without a serial number. Robb Stewart gave it a super-inspection, and didn't find a thing. Strange, but perhaps with some handmade instruments it gets missed at the "factory".

My Yorkbrunner has a serial number stamped on the first valve casing.

The serial number on mine begins 9" up the bell from the bell ferrule. It is on the back (the side facing the player) very near the top bow, below the model number.

Again, at least in the case of my instrument (but I can hardly imagine this would apply only to it) Mr. Hirsbrunner made it clear that the number on the valves is irrelevant.

To get in touch with Mr. Hirsbrunner I used the contact form on the web site and received a reply six days later from the address contact at hirsbrunner dot com.

Dylan King wrote:I also had a Rudy Meinl without a serial number. Robb Stewart gave it a super-inspection, and didn't find a thing. Strange, but perhaps with some handmade instruments it gets missed at the "factory".

My Yorkbrunner has a serial number stamped on the first valve casing.

I thought Rudys never had serial numbers...

Michael Bush wrote:The serial number on mine begins 9" up the bell from the bell ferrule. It is on the back (the side facing the player) very near the top bow, below the model number.

Again, at least in the case of my instrument (but I can hardly imagine this would apply only to it) Mr. Hirsbrunner made it clear that the number on the valves is irrelevant.

To get in touch with Mr. Hirsbrunner I used the contact form on the web site and received a reply six days later from the address contact at hirsbrunner dot com.

Thanks--I had already sent Mr. Hirsbrunner a message using the contact form after our initial failures last night.

Not all the German makers number their instruments, but everyone who has a Hirsbrunner seems to have one and the Swiss are naturally very orderly about such things.

Thanks for the specifics on location. Nothing there, but at least I know it's not supposed to be hard to find.

Rick "who will wait for a response from Hirsbrunner" Denney

Please post whatever you learn!

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The serial number on mine is on the bell, just above the top branch in the 8 o'clock position (9 o'clock is facing that branch).

The last digit, 6, is stamped on just about every part of the horn that is not soldered in place, each paddle, the valve caps, a ferrule on each slide ...

The star marks the spot.
20151220_164536 by George McBlane, on Flickr

Herr Hirsbrunner tells me that sometimes the workers would forget to stamp the bell for handmade instruments. He gave me some clues for further research and that research is proceeding.

Rick "hoping to discover the whole story eventually" Denney

bloke wrote:Rather than being concerned about it's legacy, (simply) make its legacy be that 'Mr. Rick Denney owned and made wonderful music with this instrument'.

...and stamped his own serial number on it!

bloke wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:Herr Hirsbrunner tells me that sometimes the workers would forget to stamp the bell for handmade instruments. He gave me some clues for further research and that research is proceeding.

Rick "hoping to discover the whole story eventually" Denney

Rather than being concerned about it's legacy, (simply) make its legacy be that 'Mr. Rick Denney owned and made wonderful music with this instrument'.

I'll do my best, but that's only part of the hobby for me.

Rick "not so concerned about who owns it, but when it was made" Denney

bloke wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:Rick "not so concerned about who owns it, but when it was made" Denney

It's neither a used car nor a run-of-the-mill used car...



- existential issues
- condition
- a̶g̶e̶

True enough. But if Mr. Hirsbrunner can tell me when he made it, why wouldn't I want to know? He made very few of these.

Rick "don't worry, I'm not being pushy" Denney