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Hello,

I bought few days ago a 2341 new model with the fixed bell.
It have a beautiful sound and great intonation but I have some questions about the lower notes, I don't know if I'm using the correct MPC, I'm using a PT-72, but the low Eb 1-2-4 It sounds like stuffy, I really don't know why but the another notes D 2-3-4 and Db 1-2-3-4 sounds stuffy too. That's because the bore size? Or have another problem? The "Air" that I'm using to play, I need play these notes more "relax" without tension?

Another question is about the dynamic: there is a limit to the notes when I play ƒƒ all notes mainly the lower notes blow up, I've played rotary tubas for a long time and that's the reason that I'm not used in hear all the notes blow all the time when I play ƒƒ or ƒƒƒ. Maybe because the size of the bell?

Thanks in help me

Cheers

I've been using one of these since 2001 and the detachable model for the ten years before that. This is what works for me...Eb~1+4 and pull the first slide to pitch, D~1+2+4 with the first slide way out or 3+4 with the third slide way out, Db1+3+4, C~ 1+2+3+4 with both 1st and 3rd slides out to pitch. If it's a faster moving thing the false tones work fine. Eb~open, D~2, Db~1, C~1+2, B~2+3.Maybe it will work for you too. Good Luck, Ed PS, I use a PT 50+

Being able to play those notes with a good sound, reliably and in tune takes a lot of practice and time to master on any tuba. Getting used to them on a new tuba will also take time. By description, the PT-72 is intended as a large F/Eb mouthpiece. Maybe it is time to go mouthpiece shopping.

I popped a bloke piece symphony into a student's the other day.felt good. These really are fine horns.like any horn,you have to spend the time to learn what it needs from you.

lost wrote:Was the new style 2341 an actual "new" model right out of the showroom or did you buy it used?

I bought used. Serial data 1983

Thanks

I'm not quite sure what this means, but I can say that for me, playing low notes on a rotary tuba is a bit different than on a piston tuba. I think it might have to do with the bore of the instrument (piston tubas have a progressively larger bore through the valves, and only some rotary tubas have this).

I find that piston tubas can take air at faster speeds, and without needing the same kind of control as rotary tubas (it takes control, just a different kind). When people go from piston tubas to rotary tubas, I've seen a lot of people take a rotary tuba and blow a hard fast stream of air, and say that it backs up on them and feels "stuffy." Whereas a person more used to rotary tubas has no trouble, because like Joe said, they know what it takes to make it "go." It's all there, but it takes a little work.

Sounds like the opposite experience for you, that you might need to change your airstream to get the desired result. Yes, there are limits to the sound that a tuba can produce, but I'd guess that you aren't there yet.

Enjoy the horn, those tubas (old and new) are very nice.

The "new style" Kings came around 2000. They changed the numbering somehow. Dan Shultz has pointed it out before. Mabye Dan or Matt Walters will chime in on it. Neither my 2341 or my 1241 are stuffy down low. They are not progressively larger bore like some other piston horns so maybe to those who have been used to the fourth valve being more open than the others they might seem so. At least on mine the low end is nice, easy, and very full sounding.Ed

I use the same fingerings Ed Firth uses on his 2341 on mine. I've played Kings for years and find the lower register on the current 2341 horns open and nice and "fat". Mine speaks quite well down in the ledger lines - right on time.

Lately I've been using a Canadian Brass Arnold Jacobs mouthpiece - a modified Helleberg type. I find it does well in the bottom but also easier for me to control upstairs.

Fingerings are unique to different horns - I suggest you experiment with a combination of fingerings and slide pulling. For instance, I use the third valve alone to execute a lot of 1-2 notes - an old cornetist's trick (it's in the Arban cornet book - nothing new in the world).

I don't know your experience level, nor can I see you play, but valve technique counts too. A lot of perceived stuffiness and intonation "problems" actually stem from sloppy valve technique - practice snapping those valves down if you haven't done so lately, and good luck!

Mark Heter

EdFirth wrote:The "new style" Kings came around 2000. They changed the numbering somehow. Dan Shultz has pointed it out before. Mabye Dan or Matt Walters will chime in on it. ....

The OP sent me a private message but I'll say what I know here. The UMI/Conn-Selmer 'Cyborg' changed the model number from 1240/41 to 2340/41 officially in June of 1980 at serial number 780900. As far as I know, they were still building the detachable bell horns maybe as late at '83 or so to basically use up the old parts. Serial number 976,572 (I think) was the end of the traditional six-digit serial number and they went to a prefix when added to fifty was the year of manufacture.

The OP's serial number indicates 1983-84. He mentioned that the horn has a fixed upright bell but I'd surmise the only change that horn saw was a different leadpipe... a 1st slide on 'the top'... the 'curley-cue' removed from the 2rd wrap... and the bell.

I doubt if anyone know EXACTLY when the subtle changes took place other than someone who actually worked at UMI during that time. Things like the basic valveset, the slide tubing, and most of the crooks went unchanged for over eighty years now.

As far as playability goes.... I have a fairly extensive stable of very nice horns and the one I chose to take to 'Windjammers' this week in Bradenton is an old 1241 (with both bells). This horn plays great and has no intonation issues I cannot easily overcome. I'm using the same MP as I use on my other horns... a Mike Finn MF3B.

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The serial number on 1º valve is 923.XXX

Thanks

Nice tuba. Definitely the new version.

Sweet BBb tubas-+1!

My guess is a bad alignment for the 4th valve, or check the seal on the water key (if there is one on the 4th tubing).

For American tubas on the smaller side, a Helleberg is really required. But this one is full-sized and PT-72 doesn't sound bad unless it's shallow or PT rim specs run high.

1-2-4 isn't easy for everyone. From everything from megabore rotary to medium-bore piston, I'd always get this death gargle like the horn is coughing. I always just thought those notes were a novelty and said "****", now I'm trying to get them back. Now at least I can go down a scale to them if it really does prevent octave jumping in musical line, but not always articulate loudly on them (what tympani's there for anyways). Usually those notes are coming from a composer taking a risk that didn't pay off, or an arranger trying too hard/just writing to what sounds good on his computer. Sure it's "cool" but you give up the tight, strong sound of unison midrange tuba to get it.

So you can work on it gradually, and be fine in the meanwhile. It's more a bag-of-tricks thing than an essential technique thing. American tubas always have good false tones (low Eb played open), you may just prefer those. They're a little different, but give a very thick sound and much easier to play.

Check that the joint between the lead pipe and first valve casing is not leaking.

Hello everyone,

Yesterday I was analyzing the valves and realized that the valve nº1 and nº3 are equal, I exchanged the two, because the valves has no number indication, surprise, the low notes as Eb, D and Db sounded free. Maybe it was changed places and I put them in the right place.
Amazing.

This horn is fantastic.

DoubleBass wrote:This horn is fantastic.

YEAH! Glad to hear it!