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I'll make no apologies, I like the Jin Bao clone. I checked things out and would probably have gone with the Wessex, but they were out of stock and I had a time sensitive issue and needed one with a weeks notice. I talked with Tom at Mack, and settled on his import. I've had it about 2 years now and it had held up just great. I did a side by side comparison with a Yamaha, Willson and Besson and could not justify the additional expense. Were I Steve Mead, Yes I would want a premium euph. As a professional, but a doubler, the Mack is perfect. So far there have been no 'build' issues, valves and slides are great, pitch is plug and play, and the silver finish is without blemish. Maybe I'm lucky, but I would think that HS and College students would do well with this instrument. The Wessex had a few more bells and whistles and I undertand there are other imports such as JP, that have a certain finese to the workmanship. BMB also has a rather interesting euph. But these latter brands are a bit more money, which not having experienced them first hand, I can not evaluate any difference. I would say, if you want a premium euphonium, then go with Willson, MW, Miraphone, Besson. York, Adams and company. If you want "bang for your buck" then I believe the Chinese imports are the best deal.

The snotty rich Texas kids can buy their own dang euphs.

Anything new made in the USA that's worth buying?

I'm generally a fan of the Chinese brass instruments, as they are a great deal cheaper and any defects of manufacturing are either dealt with by wonderful people like Wessex or Mack...or can be fixed by an amateur tech like me. However, my Chinese Miraclone is so thin that I can fix small pings in the bell with the back side of a tablespoon on top of a piece of tape and I have to be careful not to press too hard. It is a "Golden Cup," not from Mack or Wessex, and it plays very well in tune, but I wouldn't get one for a high school.

My 70's era Besson is a great euph and seems a lot thicker brass. Are the Chinese imports from Wessex and Mack heavy enough to be school horns?

I'd use whatever the US service bandspeople use.

Why? Because that's just about the only professional euphonium job in the country, so if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for a Texas high school.

Or a Willson.

Yamaha YEP-642. Since a "Perfect Fit" is an individual thing of matching a particular instrument's quirks to a particular individual's quirks, I suggest the Yamaha YEP-642(lacquer or silver) as the safest, good fit to more players over the lifespan of the instrument in the school program. Even if it only lasts 12 years from getting beat up in a school program, that is at least 3 different students using it as their main horn. Readily available parts that any mom and pop repair shop can get make it easy to maintain.

Tighter tolerances means they need to be oiled daily.

When I was playing yamahas,and there are certainly things I miss about them,I found the combination of Monel valves and tight tolerance was a bad combination.the oxidation/haziness was enough to cause problems.a tech can polish/lap them once or twice a year to keep them happy.

58mark wrote:I'm not going to stereotype high school students and say that Most of them suck at horn maintenance, but...

Oh wait, that's exactly what I'm going to say.

Then they shouldn't be given top-of-the-line expensive instruments. If they can just be handed a professional level instrument and can't be bothered to oil their valves now and then... they deserve sticking valves.

Yamaha 642-S.

Yes, the silver one.

Silver will wear WAY better than lacquer, and a pretty horn gets treated better than a scratched peeling one.

Yamahas are super consistent. I've never played a bad 642. Any yep-642 will outplay 70% of Willson 2900s , but there ARE elusive magic Willsons out there that need to be played to be found. (I have one).

I've played the same Yamaha for 18 years in the Marine Band, and it has NEVER been maintained, or (confession) even cleaned beyond twisting a paper towel down the leadpipe. Al Cass valve oil keeps it happy, and my felts lasted 15 years.

No issues. No complaints.

If I had to choose a horn sight unseen, I'm 100% comfortable with the standard Yamaha 642. (Though not the Neo or 842...)

The Chinese clones are OK for $1200, and are WAY better instruments than the 3-valve King I had in high school, but if the only criteria is "best" horn with money as no factor , but no play testing, YAMAHA 642. When $ enters the equation, it's hard to ignore the Jin Bao as you can get 4 or 5 for the price of a single Yamaha, and they play probably 95-98% as well.

Matt Summers

royjohn wrote:I'm generally a fan of the Chinese brass instruments, as they are a great deal cheaper and any defects of manufacturing are either dealt with by wonderful people like Wessex or Mack...or can be fixed by an amateur tech like me. However, my Chinese Miraclone is so thin that I can fix small pings in the bell with the back side of a tablespoon on top of a piece of tape and I have to be careful not to press too hard. It is a "Golden Cup," not from Mack or Wessex, and it plays very well in tune, but I wouldn't get one for a high school.

My 70's era Besson is a great euph and seems a lot thicker brass. Are the Chinese imports from Wessex and Mack heavy enough to be school horns?

We have our instruments in over 500 schools, colleges and universities across the country and have never had a complaint on the metal being thin. As a matter of fact i think the guage used is in the middle somewhere. Kalison, alexander, and some other very high dollar horns have thinner metal but how the horns are maintained is up to the individuals who play them. Any horn, no matter the manufacturer will dent easily if so desired. I am just clarifying my experiences with those of my customers as i get the question all the time on durability. Are they perfect? No, but is any horn for that matter perfect? Definitely not. All instruments no matter the brand have their strengths and weaknesses. If someone wants a tank that will last through a stampede but doesnt mind a hollow dead sound then yamaha is the way to go.

I agree with Bloke in that euphs are tricky, some feature amazing sounds but lack intonation or vis versa. If the end goal is to spend a heck of a lot of money for bragging rights in a public school district then a 7k horn is the way. If its about ease of use and offers an opportunity for growth then a 1k horn will do the job as well. Of course the biggest factor in all of this is how much responsibility the director takes on their shoulders to ensure a good program that allows for growth and development as well as care in the programs horns.

bloke wrote:I see things a bit differently.

Lacquer on Yamaha instruments is pretty darn tough, is epoxy, and lasts almost as well as the epoxy lacquer on the last-few-years-old-production California-Olds (as well as Elkhart-Conn) instruments...many of which are still shiny with intact finishes today.

In my experience, professionals who care for their instruments preserve plated and lacquered finishes equally well, and careless non-owner students wear those two different types of finishes equally quickly.

When a bottom bow on a school-owned euphonium must be removed to un-smash it, the integrity of a silver plated finish is then "toast", yet when the same thing is done with an epoxy lacquer finish (if done quickly and skillfully enough) it is barely "browned"...and - after the second/third/fourth times that the bottom bow is removed to be un-smashed, the bottom bow can be polished and re-lacquered (whereas there is really no such thing as a viable/durable silver "touch-up").

As a repair-guy, I tend to sigh and facepalm when band directors specify silver plated instruments for school ownership (the worst possible application being with their sousaphones).

Yes yes yes!

With silver you are paying extra for a little more bling on day one and a lifetime of either polishing, ugly, or both.

Take a look at the TubaExchange 2052. Great euphonium(I own one and it is heads above the MW i had for a few years. 1/3 the cost of the "name" horns. I wrote a review of it for TE but it has not been posted yet.

For my tax dollar, you'd get Yamaha 321 and you'd like it. It's just about the last word in euphoniums anyways. Parts are everywhere and even the oldest ones still have strong valve compression.

There isn't a need in a school for improved intonation on two unused crappy low notes or the moose-call sound of heavyweight euphoniums. I would almost go even lighter to American style euphs, except they get that 8th-grade-band "wah" sound if releases aren't performed well. Sounding good with saxophone is the main point of a high school euphonium, and obviously high-end euphs (and their derivatives) were designed for saxophone-free environments.

TheGoyWonder wrote:For my tax dollar, you'd get Yamaha 321 and you'd like it.

Good to know they aren't just spending mega bucks on HS football stadiums. Texas is another world. Not saying that's good or bad, but things really can be different and unrelatable to the rest of the country.

When I was in high school, I saw exactly one euphonium, at an all county/honor band thing, which wasn't the standard issue Yamaha 201 (3 valves, non comp...), and that was a Canadian Brass front action 4v euph. Neat horn, wish that style would have caught on.

Make a Statement! Colorfully!
No more dark ,too dark, brit sound (so 70s)
http://www.willson.ch/en/instrument/willsax


Go for the color range!
Go for the glory days of the big American baritone sound.
Joe

TE told me that JIn Bao does not build the 2052 but who does is not made public.

eupho wrote:TE told me that JIn Bao does not build the 2052 but who does is not made public.

The TE2052 is made by Wiseman and its a copy of the besson prestige. They are good but we decided not to carry them due to not being able to justify the price difference. The jinbao 1150 is a very hard horn to beat at any level.

For American concert bands, I'm still in favor of the hybrid American bari/euph, as exemplified by the classic King, Conn, Reynolds/Olds models (and others) for all the reasons set forth in other threads to which I have posted, and of which I have one on the way.

For brass bands, I'm still a Besson guy. But...I like the older New Standard-era euphs, even with the sharp 6th partial. Again, to my ears, they had both the capability of blending in section as well as projecting out front for countermelodies and solos.

Like other instruments, especially cornets, to my ears everything has been pushed too far to too large a bore and too deep a mouthpiece cup, rendering all the brass tone too dark, tubby, and without character or blend.

The OP states they have the budget for most any horn so I don't see the need for a Chinese clone no matter how nice they have become. IMO a high school player needs a horn that is easy to blow and has good intonation. I play a Willson 2900S and it's a great and tough horn but it has some intonation quirks as do even the best horns. Besson is worse in this regard. I've read nearly unanimous praise of the Adams Custom horns and their intonation is widely praised. I don't think you can go wrong with Adams, Willson (skip the 2950 model please), Besson, Sterling, Yamaha Professional models and maybe Miraphone.

Going back to Willson, these horns have thick gauge metal and have a great concert band tone.

As far as the hybrids in the post above, I think that is a very old fashioned recommendation. Modern band parts are written for Euphonium, not Baritone. I was in high school in the 70's and we were playing Euphs back then.