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Hi All,

I've been watching the forums for about two weeks now and doing some research. I've been playing for 16 years, got my degree in tuba performance in 2010, credential in 2012, and I have been teaching at a high school til this year and am am now looking for career change. I've never been able to purchase until now and I've gotten by playing school horns. I've had experience with the following:


Miraphone 186 CC
Yamaha YCB 661 CC
Willson 3050S 5/4 CC

I would like to buy a CC to start up private lesson teaching and gigging again. My only restrictions are a budget of about $7000 or less (including shipping) and nothing too big. I liked the Willson 5/4 but that's just about the limit for me.

What I'd like to ask is some general opinions on an all around CC in my price range as well as some input on what I've found in the last few weeks.

http://www.wessex-tubas.com/cc-rotary-tuba/" target="_blank
http://www.mackbrass.com/CC_Tuba.php" target="_blank

It's my understanding that the Wessex and Mack are both re-branded Jinbao clones of the Miraphone 186, yes? These are obviously reasonable in price. I am wondering if these instruments are best served at school programs or will hold their own as personal horns. The definite plus side of these two is the option of a second purchase or a trade/step up in a year or two after.

https://www.dillonmusic.com/p-21936-eas ... -tuba.aspx" target="_blank
http://www.mackbrass.com/B_S_PT6P_CC_Tuba_Copy.php" target="_blank

These next two are at the top of my price range for a new horn but I am hearing good things about them. I know the MACK is a B&S copy but is the Eastman also a copy? As personal horns they would likely hold up better than the cheaper options, but which would fare better?

For Used Horns I've been eyeing the following:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69039" target="_blank
https://www.dillonmusic.com/p-23542-yam ... 61-cc.aspx" target="_blank
http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-YCB-621S ... SwEetV9mBU" target="_blank
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=69247" target="_blank

-The first is a Willson 3050 which I have experience playing, though it is a bit big for what I'm wanting. the price is great.
-The Yamaha 661 is their older model which I also have experience playing. I was able to slot well on that horn and its wrapped pretty tight for its size. My one problem is the 5th valve slide at maximum extension runs into the bell...Great price on the listing.
-The Yamaha 621 on Ebay seems like a GREAT buy, but I don't have experience playing a 3/4 CC. Would this instrument be able to serve my needs if I end up playing in larger ensembles like community bands? I'm sure it's size would be great for gigs and lessons. Thoughts on 3/4?
-I have no experience with the Conn 52J though I hear they hold up very well and are classics.

There you have it. Four new and four used, though I am more than open to suggestions. Thanks all for your combined expertise and advice.

My opinion -- the 3/4 Yamaha has a very definitive maximum output, and I believe it's pretty consistent across the keys. I wouldn't want to play it in a full-size group.

Where are you located? If you're anywhere near DC, you should go to the annual Army Band tuba/euph conference and try out as many horns as you can. $7,000 is a very healthy budget, so it's hard to narrow down your choices based on that, and there are other really good choices around here for that much or less.

You'll need to form your own desires first about size, rotary/piston, country of origin (if it matters to you), etc. plus your previous overall likes/dislikes for tubas. If you know some of that stuff, we could probably help recommend a few things a little better.

I'm on a Willson kick now, so I'd say that if you know you already like the 3050, then buy one of them. There are three for sale on the board here, two of which are in your price range.

bort wrote:My opinion -- the 3/4 Yamaha has a very definitive maximum output, and I believe it's pretty consistent across the keys. I wouldn't want to play it in a full-size group.

Where are you located? If you're anywhere near DC, you should go to the annual Army Band tuba/euph conference and try out as many horns as you can. $7,000 is a very healthy budget, so it's hard to narrow down your choices based on that, and there are other really good choices around here for that much or less.

You'll need to form your own desires first about size, rotary/piston, country of origin (if it matters to you), etc. plus your previous overall likes/dislikes for tubas. If you know some of that stuff, we could probably help recommend a few things a little better.

I'm on a Willson kick now, so I'd say that if you know you already like the 3050, then buy one of them. There are three for sale on the board here, two of which are in your price range.

Thanks for the input Bort!

I am located in Los Angeles. Im mostly looking for a 4/4 but will consider the merits of 3/4 and 5/4 horns (I like the Miraphone 1291/2/3 for their tight wrap. The Willson 3050 is a bit big). Country of origin is no matter to me at this time. I've been a piston fan but the sweetest valves I ever played were Jupiter rotaries (of all things!) on the XO symphonic model that didn't go into production(or was discontinued quickly...I played it at NAMM in 2014 if my memory serves me correctly)

As far as likes I prefer tuning slides that can be top-pulled and thumb rotor fifth valves (the worst part of the Yamaha 661 was the 5th being on the opposite side of the horn. Though I like the feel of pistons the bigger the horn the more strength it's taken to play them (I played a friends Miraphone 1291 and those pistons were great. The pistons on the Willson 3050 I used to play were too heavy for my taste, so I'll chalk up heavy pistons as an overall dislike.

Tubajupiter wrote:

bort wrote:My opinion -- the 3/4 Yamaha has a very definitive maximum output, and I believe it's pretty consistent across the keys. I wouldn't want to play it in a full-size group.

Where are you located? If you're anywhere near DC, you should go to the annual Army Band tuba/euph conference and try out as many horns as you can. $7,000 is a very healthy budget, so it's hard to narrow down your choices based on that, and there are other really good choices around here for that much or less.

You'll need to form your own desires first about size, rotary/piston, country of origin (if it matters to you), etc. plus your previous overall likes/dislikes for tubas. If you know some of that stuff, we could probably help recommend a few things a little better.

I'm on a Willson kick now, so I'd say that if you know you already like the 3050, then buy one of them. There are three for sale on the board here, two of which are in your price range.

Thanks for the input Bort!

I am located in Los Angeles. Im mostly looking for a 4/4 but will consider the merits of 3/4 and 5/4 horns (I like the Miraphone 1291/2/3 for their tight wrap. The Willson 3050 is a bit big). Country of origin is no matter to me at this time. I've been a piston fan but the sweetest valves I ever played were Jupiter rotaries (of all things!) on the XO symphonic model that didn't go into production(or was discontinued quickly...I played it at NAMM in 2014 if my memory serves me correctly)

As far as likes I prefer tuning slides that can be top-pulled and thumb rotor fifth valves (the worst part of the Yamaha 661 was the 5th being on the opposite side of the horn. Though I like the feel of pistons the bigger the horn the more strength it's taken to play them (I played a friends Miraphone 1291 and those pistons were great. The pistons on the Willson 3050 I used to play were too heavy for my taste, so I'll chalk up heavy pistons as an overall dislike.

Hi-
Why not go to Horn Guys store and play a bunch of tubas to see what you like?

Makes sense!

I'm a big Miraphone fan, and I also like both the 1291 (I had one for several years) and the 188 (which is probably my all-time, all-around favorite tuba). Frankly, I'm not sure selling either of those was the best decision on my part, although it ended up working out well. But those are both excellent tubas.

Sounds like your best bet might be to look for a used 1291... which do come up in your price range from time to time.

Good luck, I'll keep my eyes out for you.

Oh, and if you are able to stretch your budget at all, bloke has an excellent MW 2155, which easily meets your requirements. A little more expensive, but maybe possible if both parties have a little wiggle room?

I'll be making a trip to the Horn Guys tomorrow. I check their website regularly. Their prices are a bit out of my range but true, I definitely need to go play the horns I haven't yet played and get some qualified ears to listen as well.

I'm not at all familiar with the John Packer/Sterling brand. Is there any more you can tell me about them? Is this model styled after a Hirsbrunner or copied from one?

I am honestly also considering the Tuba-Euph workshop, if for nothing other than the experience.

For your budget, I would suggest check out these guys, they might have something for you.
Besson models look promising. I got my Besson BE187 from them and fully satisfied.

loran wrote:For your budget, I would suggest check out these guys, they might have something for you.
Besson models look promising. I got my Besson BE187 from them and fully satisfied.

Hmm... nice to know that it is nice a tuba for a 3 valve instrument.

Tubajupiter wrote:
http://www.wessex-tubas.com/cc-rotary-tuba/
http://www.mackbrass.com/CC_Tuba.php
....
I am wondering if these instruments are best served at school programs or will hold their own as personal horns.

This question hasn't been addressed, so I'll put in a word. Many people are finding these horns more than satisfactory as personal horns. I can think of three orchestra professionals offhand who own them. I'm sure there are others. One of the most distinguished teachers in the field expressed his satisfaction with this model to me about two weeks ago, and another did so several years ago after trying one I had at the time.

I had one for 2+ years and then traded it for something with a larger bore. My only real complaint was that the paddles are nickel-plated brass and the nickel began to wear off after about a year. Attached German marks bought cheap on ebay, and that problem was solved.

At the same time, if I were in your situation, I would give serious consideration to bloke's Packer.

Alright, results from yesterdays trip to the horn guys :

Miraphone 188: Responsive and articulate but I felt I reached its maximum output pretty quickly. Nimble but thin, in other words. I'm also not a fan of the tight wrap. The tall bell and smaller body makes it feel "shifty" while holding it.

Miraphone 1291: Gorgeously warm tones middle and lower. Rounded articulations are this horns strong point. Not so much when more power and clarity are needed. Feels right size wise.

B&S PT20s: Very nice upfront and responsive sound. A little too forward and edgy in tone for my tastes, but a very nice horn.

Miraphone 1292 New Yorker: Hands down awesome. The smaller lead pipe and stainless steel mouthpiece bring clarity and articulation to the 1291. The difference was quite shocking for the tiny price increase. Considering both horns are considered5 /4 the 1292 handled like a smaller horn due to that change. This is still out of my price range but it was a pleasure to try out.

Horn Guys said they would soon be stocking the Wisemann, Eastman, and Packer CC's this year. I'm definitely excited about trying them all out.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

One idea: if you bought a 1291 used, you can spend a few hundred dollars to get the leadpipe swapped out with the smaller 1292 leadpipe. I had this done on my old 1291 and it improved a LOT of things about that tuba. That's not the only difference between the 1291 and 1292, but it was a relatively inexpensive modification that really helped.

B&S PT20s: Very nice upfront and responsive sound. A little too forward and edgy in tone for my tastes, but a very nice horn.

I played one and loved it; you could do a lot worse but not much better.

Some of the particular models of c. $2000 tubas from China offer remarkably good resonance and intonation.

It is a lotery buying from China. IMHO you may only buy full dissatisfaction.