Choosing a large 5v Bb

[bigboymusic]

All of that having been said,
I >>ALWAYS<< (though old and fat) sit on the FRONT of the chair. (My back never-ever touches the backrest.) I just don't see anyone else doing that. Perhaps, others might consider trying it, and combining that with seeking out a comfortable tuba-holding position...(??)

+1

[Rick Denney]

This is the standard remark...along with the standard remark about Willson tubas (completely bypassing their playing characteristics) that they are heavy, etc., etc... (OK, then, they tend to sport fewer dents...whatever...)

This-tuba...that-tuba...the-other-tuba... If they are good, I seem to be able to find a way to hold and play them without leg cramps, arm cramps, or backaches. Surely, I'm not alone. I'm no superman.

I do recall certain blokes claiming in no uncertain terms about the ergonomics of York-style tubas with the lead pipe that doesn't wrap fully around the bell, such that none of those remain in their collections. But perhaps the ability to tolerate poor ergonomics requires a test longer than a year or three.

Rick "who can manage any uncomfortable tuba...for a while." Denney

[Wes Krygsman]

I say if money is no object, go for the Nirschl. They are so easy to play.

[Wyvern]

I probably already posted in this thread, but...

...The 3+1 comp "large Bb" tubas found ALL OVER THE PLACE on your island are SUPERB instruments.
- excellent pitch (perhaps asking for adding the 4th valve for the upper Eb...but that's about all...)
- majestic sound
- fully chromatic
- LOUD !!! (if need be)

If you really want something loud-LOUD, locate one of the late-1950's/early-1960's "recording bell" versions (assuming not-worn pistons), and (OK...just to make some conductors/associates happy) have an auxiliary upright bell fashioned for it.

bloke "Sometimes, the solution has been right there - all along."

I am sure Malcolm has played the large compensated BBb and does not take to them, like quite a lot of players. Personally the last time I played one I ended the gig with both back and neck pains contorting to hold and play.

That is of course why Wessex has designed our TB570 Excelsior BBb, to be comfortable to play while still having the advantages of the compensating system. Mind you Malcom has visited and played that too, so knows what they are like.

Of course choice of tuba is very personal and one person's object of desire is another's object of hate. I know what Wessex is for DP - haha!

[Wyvern]

oh...Should I be selling something here...??

If you have a large Bb you think may fit the bill, yes...

[oedipoes]

I might suggest trying sitting on the FRONT of the chair...

Yip, I do sit on the front of the chair.
I play my Eb tuba holding it in my lap on a piece of anti-slip drawer liner, perfect for me.
The Rudi 4/4 BBb stands on a BBC stand between my legs, and is very comfortable to play like that, my Willson 3100 was still not comfortable in that position, so I sold it.
The Besson sov. BBb I played in brassband was also on the BBC stand, but was never comfortable because of the position of the valves with respect to the mouthpiece.
I'm (only) 1.75m tall, so with most BBb tubas the distance bottom bow-mouthpiece is too big, so that the mouthpiece hits my forehead when the tuba is sitting in my lap, even when tilting the tuba diagonally left or right.

I play tubas for my own pleasure only, so they need to be comfortable.

[Three Valves]

There has to be a tuba sling so it can hang from the ceiling...

[pigman]

Other than adding stuffiness and weight to the horn Why ever would you need a 5th valve???
You might look for an cerveny 1024 BBb Its what the Fafner ans Seigfreids are copied from

[Donn]

Other than adding stuffiness and weight to the horn Why ever would you need a 5th valve???
You might look for an cerveny 1024 BBb Its what the Fafner ans Seigfreids are copied from

When did they last make those, do you think?

One of the advantages of the BBb contrabass seems to be that it doesn't need a 5th valve.

[Peach]

Those people wondering why on earth someone would need a 5th valve on a Bb have probably never played in a high section competing brass band... Those parts are frequently tres mobile way down below standard orchestral rep and the flexibility of a 5th valve helps a lot.

[oedipoes]

Played Besson compensating euphonium for almost 15 years, no complaints from my side.
Played Besson compensating BBb tuba for 3 years, never again...

[Patrase]

If there is one instrument that is crying out for valves made lighter and with the MAW design it is the BBb compensated Tuba. I recall Bloke saying the older valve manufacturing technique made lighter valves. Combine that with the MAW design (plus Bloke buttons and stems) and that would help us poor Brass band BBb players trying to play fast passages 6 ledger lines below at FFF against a soprano cornet.

[michael_glenn]

Those people wondering why on earth someone would need a 5th valve on a Bb have probably never played in a high section competing brass band... Those parts are frequently tres mobile way down below standard orchestral rep and the flexibility of a 5th valve helps a lot.

I play CC tuba in my brass band and it works fine. But looking at the part, I would not want to attempt to do it on a non compensating 4 valve BBb. There would be way too much manipulation of the first slide to get things in tune, and that's a hassle at high speeds. Also, there have been multiple occasions where a pedal B natural has come up. You either need five valves or a compensating system to get that to work.

It was also mentioned that the fafner and Siegfried were copied off of a cerveny. If that's the case, they went in very different directions for those instruments. The fafner is great. But I found the Siegfried to be easier to play in tune, and had a much nicer sound. They were more distinct than what someone may have been suggesting. They are both rotary 6/4 BBb tubas. But they are distinctly different from each other.

[TheGoyWonder]

Low Eb usually sucks on 4 valve tubas, and brass band always uses that note. There's never enough 4th valve push to pull off a 1-2-4 Eb...if you had that, you'd have 70% of the benefit of the 5th valve.

[Ken Crawford]

Low Eb usually sucks on 4 valve tubas, and brass band always uses that note. There's never enough 4th valve push to pull off a 1-2-4 Eb...if you had that, you'd have 70% of the benefit of the 5th valve.

BMB 6/4 BBb has a fantastic 1+4 low Eb with about an inch of first valve slide pull.

[roweenie]

The general (as they vary slightly from one make to the next) shape of the bugle of the "euphonium" contributes to a very pleasant sound, and that same bugle taper could be fastened to four front-action non-compensating pistons plus an independent 5th rotor

I have always felt this would be a great combination.

The difficulty lies in finding a 4 piston-valve side-action set in an appropriate bore.

[TheGoyWonder]

Big problem with front-action euphonium is that the bell points the wrong way. In brass band, the euphonium soloist is traditionally front right. A front action euphonium points precariously in-your-face from that position, so the band has to relegate him to a center position and give his favored chair to somebody else. Usually flugelhorn, which actually sounds better pointing forward.

Better to use top action and keep the euphonium out front, it's a featured part for most of the duration of any brass band piece and at the volumes bands are currently reaching for it can get buried easily. It loses its niceness if the player has to try too hard.

[roweenie]

I wonder if a King 2268 4 valve set would work....I seem to recall it has a .562 bore, and that the "English" euphonium(s) are around .590?

Then again, harvesting a 4 valve set off a King seems kind of counterproductive......

[Bob Kolada]

I wonder if a King 2268 4 valve set would work....I seem to recall it has a .562 bore, and that the "English" euphonium(s) are around .590?

Then again, harvesting a 4 valve set off a King seems kind of counterproductive......

I have an Eb thing with a .562 King valve set, a 10" G baritone bell, and a bunch of .562 straight tubing; low Bb is fine, low C is great, and low B can be super rude.




Therefore the valve set will work (and I've always liked the low range on .570 321's) but a Chinese/Cerveny .590 set with a short lead pipe might work better. I was actually tracking on a 321 body (nothing before the main slide) for quite a while on eBay even though I had no valve set for it. The best bet for us guys that want a big bore non comp front valve euph is one of those rotary valve sets on an appropriately sized body...

My not quite a solution is to get a King 2266/68, get a large shank receiver on there somehow, rework the 4th valve slide, and use it as a bass trombone sub. Or find one of the rare non comp Canadian Brass front valve euphs!

[Peach]

Big problem with front-action euphonium is that the bell points the wrong way. In brass band, the euphonium soloist is traditionally front right. A front action euphonium points precariously in-your-face from that position, so the band has to relegate him to a center position and give his favored chair to somebody else. Usually flugelhorn, which actually sounds better pointing forward.

Better to use top action and keep the euphonium out front, it's a featured part for most of the duration of any brass band piece and at the volumes bands are currently reaching for it can get buried easily. It loses its niceness if the player has to try too hard.

Unless players end up with almost horizontal playing position for their front action Euph, I don't recognise this.
Here in the UK the Euphonium sound tends to dominate the band sound and that is in our best (also doubtless 'loudest') bands such as Black Dyke, Cory, Foden, Brighouse, Grimethorpe and Faireys (among others). Grimethorpe very frequently adopt the euphs in the middle seating plan and I'll be dammned if I can tell any real difference out in the hall.
On the subject of Flugels, I often find that a flugel (or cornet) played right at me ends up giving a predominance to the 'fluff' around the sound (forgive my technical language...) - not really what I want.

So I say let players sit wherever the hell they want, or what works best at least =)