Choosing a large 5v Bb Bookmark and Share

The bulk of the musical talk

Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby Peach » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:05 pm

If you could choose basically any 5/4-6/4 Bb with 5 valves, what would you go for?
Choices seem to be:
Siegfried
Gronitz PBK / PZK (I gather both in stock!)
Kanstul
A converted vintage horn
Rudolf Meinl Bayreuth or "5/4" 5v
Nirschl 6/4 Bb (to order)
Peach
User avatar
Peach
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:42 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby MikeMason » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:22 pm

Willson
Pensacola Symphony
Troy University-adjunct tuba instructor
Wisemann 900c/blokepiece imperial,profundo rim
Conn 2j -5valve with bloke piece imperial,profundo rim
Mack euph
Bach Strad 36b Tbone
MikeMason
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1871
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 2:03 am
Location: montgomery/gulf shores, Alabama

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby Peach » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:39 pm

Also add Fafner 5P

Willson beautiful instruments but SO heavy...
Peach
User avatar
Peach
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:42 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby EMC » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:48 pm

Alexander 164 5V
EMC
3 valves
3 valves
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:54 am

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby Mark Finley » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:55 pm

Formerly 58Mark
User avatar
Mark Finley
Low Brass Teacher
Low Brass Teacher
 
Posts: 4415
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:08 am
Location: Mesquite, TX

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby kmorgancraw » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:10 pm

If money is no issue a Siegfried. Otherwise, BMB.
kmorgancraw
3 valves
3 valves
 
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:45 am

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby Bob Kolada » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:16 pm

Bob Kolada
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 2561
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:57 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby oedipoes » Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:27 pm

Nice list you have there!
I would add a Melton 197 (they make a 5-valve version if you want) and a Hirsbrunner 193.
User avatar
oedipoes
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 705
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:47 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby bloke » Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:49 pm

Fafner 5V piston BBb is stupid-good and Miraphone rotary Siegfried is stupid-good.

They are VERY different from each other, but both astonishing.

I don't see many people picking up either one, when they are on display at shows.

The old butt-ugly totally-of-the-radar Besson recording bell compensating tubas are stupid-efficient and glorious-sounding instruments. About the only "fix it" pitch is Eb in the staff. These tubas piss off aggressive bass trombonists (yes, in symphony orchestras...yes, BBb...yes, recording bell), because these instruments will ALWAYS (in the right hands) win.
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38030
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby TubaBum » Sun Jan 31, 2016 8:45 am

I'd say Kanstul, you can probably get them about half the price of a Siegfried and they play great. But if price isn't an option and you want to drop nearly $20k on a horn then go with a Miraphone.
TubaBum
 

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby tuben » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:25 am

Fafner, without hesitation.
tuben
 

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby bloke » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:31 am

tuben wrote:Fafner, without hesitation.


I wouldn't hesitate either (amazing Thorish-yet-6/4-breadth BBb powerhouse)...but (in a fantasy world as all of us but Mr. Peach are in) I would ALSO ~love~ to own a Miraphone Siegfried:
Miraphone 98 Siegfried:
- 6.5/4 size YET focused (NOT "fluffy") powerful ROUND sound
- astonishing touch-no-slides intonation
- priced at little more than a M-W 5450 price

If you've ever played a 98-Siegfried, I believe you would continue to think about it.
Again, at exhibits (if there at all) I typically see their Siegfried down on the floor (not on the table) and it not getting that much attention.
well...It's rotary, isn't it? :|
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38030
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby bort » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:17 pm

Peach wrote:Willson beautiful instruments but SO heavy...


Well, in all fairness... a four valve 5/4 to 6/4 BBb tuba is already the largest size of the lowest pitched tuba (i.e., big and heavy). When you add a 5th valve, you are adding another valve, tubing, braces, solder, etc...

My point is, I'd be surprised if any five valve large BBb is going to be particularly lightweight, especially if you want a true 6/4 tuba. Sure, the Willson is probably still at or near the heaviest option... but by how much?

Two more thoughts:
-- If buying new, I'd be curious how many 4v rotary tubas could be ordered as 5v. I forget the model (GR-55?), but the big B&S BBb that's a lot like the Thor/Tuono is only listed as 4v. I bet if you asked real nice ($,$$$) they would make a 5v version.
-- For obvious reasons, I would want to check out a rotary 5v version of the WIllson BBb.

I guess there's something big and 5v that Cerveny makes. In my experience, new Cerveny tubas are like Kanstul tubas. I guess they exist, but I've sure never seen them anywhere... and when you do, it's kind of like "if these are good, why aren't there more?"
Willson 3050-RZ
Thein RCC
User avatar
bort
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 8786
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby tuben » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:31 pm

bort wrote:
Peach wrote:Willson beautiful instruments but SO heavy...

My point is, I'd be surprised if any five valve large BBb is going to be particularly lightweight, especially if you want a true 6/4 tuba.


Image
Alexander 164 = 9.75kg (or 21 1/2 lbs)
tuben
 

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby swillafew » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:58 pm

I sometimes wished my BBb tuba had 5V. Then I thought to ask an expert if there was a low B natural in any piece I might need to play. He couldn't think of one, and so far I haven't seen one.
I struggled to tune E and Eb, and after some extra time on those notes, have managed to get them tolerably tuned, at least as well as I play in tune otherwise.
If Hollywood ever calls to have me record those pitches, I can bring an F tuba and play them on a tube half as long. :tuba:
MORE AIR
User avatar
swillafew
4 valves
4 valves
 
Posts: 883
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:20 pm
Location: Aurora, IL

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby bort » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:52 pm

tuben wrote:Alexander 164 = 9.75kg (or 21 1/2 lbs)


Yeah, but that's a 4-valve tuba. You're clearly forgetting the... uh... 6... pound fifth valve? Crap, you're right.

But, there are still a lot of very heavy BBb tubas. I'd imagine a Holton 345, fitted with a 5th valve, could be in Willson territory.
Willson 3050-RZ
Thein RCC
User avatar
bort
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 8786
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby bloke » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:03 pm

<sidebar>

fwiw,
The heaviest-by-far valve is the traditional 4th valve.

</sidebar>
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 38030
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby TubaBum » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:07 pm

I would add a Melton 197

I forgot about those, yea they are quite nice horns.
TubaBum
 

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby Mark Horne » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:13 pm

Another vote for the 164 5V BBb. Everything the 163 is known for just bigger in all respects. Not all that heavy for its size.
Alexander 163 CC 5V, B&S PT3, Mel Culbertson Neptune, Gronitz PCK, B&S Symphonie F 6V
Mark Horne
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:59 pm
Location: California Bay Area

Re: Choosing a large 5v Bb

Postby tuben » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:31 pm

bort wrote:
tuben wrote:Alexander 164 = 9.75kg (or 21 1/2 lbs)


Yeah, but that's a 4-valve tuba. You're clearly forgetting the... uh... 6... pound fifth valve? Crap, you're right.

But, there are still a lot of very heavy BBb tubas. I'd imagine a Holton 345, fitted with a 5th valve, could be in Willson territory.


Six pounds for a whole step valve? Seems unlikely.
Willson BBb tubas all list at 27.5lbs.
tuben
 

Next

Return to TubeNet

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ace, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 20 guests