When to Switch to a Larger Tuba?

[Donn]

But I don't think I've ever used the 15 lb sledge in this way.

Small sledge, I believe it's 4 lbs. Try it! You wouldn't want to wield this thing all day long, but sometimes - like maybe an awkward, upward stroke - I can develop the necessary force with this thing easier than a normal framing hammer. Maybe someone with stronger triceps wouldn't have any reason to do it. Maybe a better tuba player could manage the same with a more normal size tuba than my old Holton.

[ghmerrill]

Yeah, I've got two of those little sledges. They are handy for a variety of things. One has a chisel edge on its rear end, the other is symmetrical. The chisel is good for working with bricks.

My wife uses one for ... er ... things I've forbidden her to use the mallets for and when she can't find the claw hammers. I've also seen her eyeing my deadblow mallet and have attempted to take preventive actions.

I have been known to use my compensating euph to play tuba parts -- including the Tuba 1 parts in Tuba Christmas for which it is particularly well-suited. It's fund to do although one tends to get odd looks from both the euph and the tuba players.

[Donn]

Before I took up the tuba I briefly played string bass in a small community orchestra. Someone joined up with a bell front baritone, which when asked about he would sternly insist was a "tenor tuba."

[vespa50sp]

Yeah, I've got two of those little sledges. They are handy for a variety of things. One has a chisel edge on its rear end, the other is symmetrical. The chisel is good for working with bricks.

My wife uses one for ... er ... things I've forbidden her to use the mallets for and when she can't find the claw hammers. I've also seen her eyeing my deadblow mallet and have attempted to take preventive actions.

I have been known to use my compensating euph to play tuba parts -- including the Tuba 1 parts in Tuba Christmas for which it is particularly well-suited. It's fund to do although one tends to get odd looks from both the euph and the tuba players.

I'm all for a bigger hammer (and fire) as persuaders. My Eb helicon was built for the Tuba 1 parts and it has a medium Euph shank size. Go figure.

I've enjoyed playing Eb helicon so much I picked up an Eb tuba. It's basically a little bazooka.

Play the tool you got.

[TheGoyWonder]

The easier the music, the better a big tuba sounds.

[ghmerrill]

I'm all for a bigger hammer (and fire) as persuaders. My Eb helicon was built for the Tuba 1 parts and it has a medium Euph shank size. Go figure.

I've enjoyed playing Eb helicon so much I picked up an Eb tuba. It's basically a little bazooka.

Play the tool you got.

I've also used my compensating Eb and my old Buescher 3-valver on the Tuba 1 parts. It's easiest with the compensator simply because it's a much better horn. But the 1924 horn is a kick to play (struggling with some intonation issues) and has excellent false tones. It also has the "small European" receiver and I used to use a Wick 5 with it. Now that I have the Dillon adapter, I use my TU17 with it and it sounds better, and some of the intonation issues have diminished. It's definitely easier to carry around than the compensator, and I worry less about protecting it in large Tuba Xmas crowds.

[Travis99079]

Really glad to have read everything here. I recently made my first actual purchase (4/4 CC). One reason I started this thread was to get more professional insight for having a versatile tuba as I've recently had many personal debates on something so silly. Many people believe big tubas are some right of passage. To clarify, I don't personally believe a BAT is only for "better" players.

I enjoyed the analogy to having the right tool for the job, and the horn I bought is versatile enough for my purposes. Soon enough I'll invest in an F horn and later I will consider a large contrabass for ensemble playing and general fun. Thanks everyone!

[barry grrr-ero]

I now have a rotary Neptune, which is a PT-6 with a 6/4 bottom branch and bell. In short, it's a BAT. I wish I had made the switch to a larger tuba MUCH EARLIER in my semi-career. I like the greater dynamic range. But what really surprises me is how easy it is to play soft on the Neptune. It's a gas! Depending on what horn you buy, just be prepared to work a little more at intonation issues. I've got tuning jiggers on mine.

[bort]

I now have a rotary Neptune, which is a PT-6 with a 6/4 bottom branch and bell. In short, it's a BAT. I wish I had made the switch to a larger tuba MUCH EARLIER in my semi-career. I like the greater dynamic range. But what really surprises me is how easy it is to play soft on the Neptune. It's a gas! Depending on what horn you buy, just be prepared to work a little more at intonation issues. I've got tuning jiggers on mine.

You know, I was going to say something like this earlier -- that if you want to try to use a huge tuba, do it sooner than later. First, because it's fun, and you can maximize your fun, and avoid the "I wish I had done this sooner..." talk. And second, because, well, everyone gets old, and huge tubas are heavy... and all sorts of things can happen at any time. Don't assume you will be playing 20 or 30 years from now. If you want to do it, do it when you know you can.

I used to own a rotary Neptune, same thing Barry has. It is gigantic. Not super tall like a German kaiser, but it has a 20.5" bell, and that thing is just massive. And like Barry, I found it to be EXTREMELY easy to play, and just fun horn all around.

However, I found that the Neptune was just too big for me. Not that it wasn't great and it wasn't fun... but it just didn't fit in my car, and it was a little obnoxious to lug around. My current tuba is a Willson 3050 rotary, which (to me) seems like a solid 5/4 sized tuba. Noticeably smaller than the Neptune, but noticeably larger than a 4/4 like the Miraphone 188 or Rudy Meinl that I used to own.

After all of my tuba buying and selling, I've found that bigger isn't better... bigger is just bigger.

As for when to switch to a larger tuba, it depends on your needs. I bought a bigger tuba when I realized I was playing mostly in large groups, and I was the only tuba player. If you aren't working too hard with a 4/4, then don't bother switching.

Or... I think February is a great time to switch.

[barry grrr-ero]

I'm guessing, Bort, that the 3050 is really a better all around, almost point-and-shoot BAT. But they usually cost more on the used market than the Neptune does. I just lucky and got a good deal on mine. Also, Wilson tubas are pretty darn heavy as well.

Yes, the Neptune is pretty unwieldy, so I use a smallish, portable hand-truck that I picked up at Kohl's. That works perfectly since I have the Neptune in a leather gig bag. If I'm having to push it across town, or across a long parking lot, I use a collapsible baby jogger. It even has a cup holder for your beverage of choice.

[LCTuba89]

Personally up until about 2009, I had used nothing but 4/4 horns. In the Fall of 2009 I was playing a 4/4 BBb I didn't like in the community band. The President at the time asked me if I'd be interested in playing a CC tuba and I said yes. The following week I got it and it was a big 5/4 horn. While I didn't like the horrible intonation, the tone was quite remarkable and the money register really resonated in the rehearsal room. I came to the conclusion that I could play with less exertion and get a mellow-present sound. It really worked well with the 186 my fellow tubist was playing. He'd take the highs and I'd take the lows when it came to divisi. parts. Around 2013 I came to know of Big Mouth Brass and their 6/4 tubas. I decided I was interested but I waited a couple of years before I pulled the trigger. Got my BMB 6/4 BBb back in October of last year and immediately the tone was everything I wanted: Round and present, but I could put a burn on it if I needed to. The intonation being 90% better than the 5/4 I had previously used wasn't a bad bonus either HAHA. The sound up close is nothing special, but as you get farther away from the 6/4 the more it's "presence" envelopes you. That's why I won't go back to a 4/4 ever (unless my back demands me to).

[PaulMaybery]

It's been around 5 years now since, in retirement from a day job, I have the discretionary time to invest in playing again on a serious basis. At the time, I also was fortunate enough to have sufficient discretionary income to look at some rather fine equipment. My first shot was to go big, and so I did with a CC BAT and a large 6/4 F (Both piston and in silver) This combination can work, and does work rather well. But in reality the F does not cover the normal day to day playing that a 4/4 CC would, and for some things the BAT is simply too big. I recently bought one of the first batch of Wessex 5/4 CC (Wyvern) and it is a very flexible instrument and fills that gap between the BAT and the F. I'm finding in works better in orchestra than the BAT, but for symphonic band, I miss the gravitas of the BAT. My plan is to unload the CC BAT and reivest in a BBb BAT as it simply would be more comfortable in the band settings, and when a horn that large is called for in orchestra playing, a BBb will work just fine. So the raft of tubas will look like this: BBb BAT, 5/4 CC. 6/4 F, and maybe a smaller 4/4 F for solos, in which case the 6/4 F may go away. On the sideline of course is a euphonium, cimbasso and a bass trombone. Yes they all get used on a regular basis.

[LCTuba89]

My plan is to unload the CC BAT and reinvest in a BBb BAT as it simply would be more comfortable in the band settings, and when a horn that large is called for in orchestra playing, a BBb will work just fine.

I always find I enjoy playing BBb tuba more than CC. Don't get me wrong I've played a Kaiser CC tuba for 6 years before making the switch to the BBb BAT, but I just like BBb much better. The old theory that CC tubas respond faster than BBb tubas to me is just a myth. All tubas have standing air in the horn so the air is always at the end of the bell at the ready. CC tubas are bit more free blowing overall, but that difference is so minute compared to the BBb. The BBb in my opinion has more depth of sound than a comparable CC. Now an Eb or F compared to the CC or BBb is a huge difference in resistance. I wish BBb compers had huge bores(.800"+) for the 4th valve, I'd think they would be much less stuffy in the lower register. They would also be amazing if they were 4 valve front action rotarys or short action pistons. But I digress.

[southtubist]

I went through a time where I had no contrabass tuba of my own, so I borrowed the Miraphone 190 owned by the school. It was in rough shape, but it was probably one of the easiest playing 6/4 tubas I've ever used. That said, I tried to do as much as I could on my little F tuba. Basically, I played the 6/4 in ensemble only. I did all of my practicing on my F tuba. I used the F tuba whenever possible and it sounded great, even in thick passages where one wouldn't normally use an F tuba.

Around the same time, I went on a tour where I had to fly halfway around the world. I borrowed another school horn- a Conn 56J. I hated the sound I heard under the bell but out front I sounded huge! It was an eye opening experience- I sounded much bigger on a 3/4-ish sized tuba. Objectively I was (and still am) a very strong player when it comes to sound production. It was just easier to get a quality air flow into the small Conn compared to the big Miraphone.

The best player I've ever played with uses a 4/4 horn and sounds huge. He does this by not worrying about equipment and just practicing a lot.

[southtubist]

Theory on size vs. sound relations. . .

Maybe focusing on getting a "pretty" sound is more productive than focusing on getting a "huge" or "aggressive" sound? I find that the "pretty" sound carries better and requires less physical effort to produce. I sounded really edgy on a 6/4 tuba- which goes against the (prevailing) logic that the greater "displacement" of the instrument "soaks up" that extra oomph that one "feels" they can put into playing, presumably reducing that "edgy" sound. In reality, that perceived "oomph" is just extra tension that causes inefficiency.

Also, I like being able to carry 2 tubas comfortably. . .

[WC8KCY]

Why doesn't the concertmaster play a 6/4 violin?

And why are the double bassists all on 3/4-size basses?

[k001k47]

.

[tclements]

Great question! My take on horn size: If I am playing in an orchestra with 10-12 celli, and 6-8 basses, I use a 6/4 tuba, depending on repertoire and the size of the bass trombonist's sound. I alternate between a BAT and a large rotary tuba. The last time we played Buckner 4, I used an F, and the conductor loved it, go figure! For most pit settings and reduced orchestra situations, where we use 3-4 basses and 4-5 celli, I use a 4/4 tuba, but since I am responsible for MORE of the bass sound, I use a 4/4 with a deep, rich sound. In this situation, I need a lot less projection, and more fundamental. As a band conductor, I want all of my tubists to use the largest horn they can get their hands on (key doesn't matter) because they ARE the bass section and they need less projection and a more blended, bassy sound. In chamber music, I use a 4/4 CC and a large F, I carry 2 tubas. For solos, it COMPLETELY depends on the repertoire.

In summary:
Large, loud orchestra, strong bass trombone (repertoire dependant): 6/4
Most other large playing: 4/4 - 5/4
Quintet: 4/4 CC, large F

Good luck!

[hup_d_dup]

Why doesn't the concertmaster play a 6/4 violin?

Good to have both. Pinchas Zuckerman plays 4/4 and 6/4 violins.

http://www.seattletimes.com/entertainme ... orchestra/" target="_blank" target="_blank

Hup

[toobagrowl]

IMO, the overall best tuba sounds I've heard in large ensembles (concert bands, orchestras, etc.) have been on 4/4 and 5/4 contrabass tubas. Most 6/4 tubas just sound too fluffy/diffuse for my tastes -- yes, even with "top pros" playing them...