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I'll also be heading off to U of M this coming fall as an Engineering Major. With a bit of luck, maybe I'll even be able to score some lessons with one of the Tuba G.A.'s or even Professor Kaenzig while I'm working on my engineering degree. I'm definitely hoping I'll be able to audition into one of the better bands or orchestras on the campus despite the fact that I'm not majoring in music.

Try to keep in mind that both the majors you listed are professional schools that require a serious commitment beyond the freshman year. I think that many people make the mistake of treating a university like a high school. In high school, you could pursue as many extracurricular studies as you had time for and still keep up your grades. The classes are mostly spread out over a full year and your schedule is relatively stable. Its a much different world at the college level.
Don't misunderstand, if you work hard enough, you can pull it off. I know people who have, but they paid a serious price in personal time and sanity to do it.
You most likely have an idea in mind which one you want to have a career in. You might want consider a minor in the other field if its only an interest.
This just some advice from an old guy who's been down the same path.
Good luck in your college career! Michigan is a great school.

I'm going to be going to University of Northern Colorado this fall, I'll be studying Music Education and I might do a double degree adding in Performance, it will only add another year.

Ben Dennis

What kind of engineering?

bigboom wrote:I'm going to be going to University of Northern Colorado this fall, I'll be studying Music Education and I might do a double degree adding in Performance, it will only add another year.

Strong Opinion Alert

Double majoring in performance and education makes no sense. For that matter a performance degree from any school other than Juilliard or Eastman is probably not worth the paper it is printed on (for most people). An education degree will open many more doors that a performance degree. Your playing chops = your real credentials in the performance world. Having Eastman on a degree will help you get past the first round of a college teaching search, and it might get you a first gig freelancing. The degree has nothing to do with your getting called back for more freelancing.

Get the education degree and practice hard enough so that you can play better than anybody else. A piece of paper that says "performance" is basically worthless if you already have an education degree.

When you go on to graduate school, you can then pursue a masters degree in music performance. These years are when you will be able to polish your playing without the distraction of learning other instruments and student teaching. Entry qualifications into graduate programs are based on your playing ability, not the title of your undergraduate degree.

Good luck! You may hear differing opinions. These are just my observations as a player and college teacher. For those of you who don't want anything to do with teaching, I'm not suggesting that you get an education degree. In that case, you should practice hard while earning a degree in something marketable.

Arkansas Tech university, Andy Anders is the tuba professor there.

Really a HARD choice, I had offers from University of Central Arkansas - Dr Louis Young, and University of arkansas..

All three had there pros, and I enjoyed all of their directors and faculty, I also just recieved a tuition offer from southern arkansas university today.

But its pretty much set im heading to Arkansas Tech. I'm lucky to have such a great selection of awesome tuba instructors around here that are just super nice people.

As far as major, double in engineering and music. I love music and want to learn as much as possible, but also enjoy engineering and so im hoping to be able to make a living in engineering and play as much as possible on the side:D

Fortissimosca wrote:I'll be double majoring in Tuba Performance and Engineering.

That means majoring in Engineering and playing some tuba on the side.

how are the scholarships from michigan? do they offer any for music?

Mudman wrote:

bigboom wrote:I'm going to be going to University of Northern Colorado this fall, I'll be studying Music Education and I might do a double degree adding in Performance, it will only add another year.

Strong Opinion Alert

Double majoring in performance and education makes no sense. For that matter a performance degree from any school other than Juilliard or Eastman is probably not worth the paper it is printed on (for most people). An education degree will open many more doors that a performance degree. Your playing chops = your real credentials in the performance world. Having Eastman on a degree will help you get past the first round of a college teaching search, and it might get you a first gig freelancing. The degree has nothing to do with your getting called back for more freelancing.

Get the education degree and practice hard enough so that you can play better than anybody else. A piece of paper that says "performance" is basically worthless if you already have an education degree.

When you go on to graduate school, you can then pursue a masters degree in music performance. These years are when you will be able to polish your playing without the distraction of learning other instruments and student teaching. Entry qualifications into graduate programs are based on your playing ability, not the title of your undergraduate degree.

Good luck! You may hear differing opinions. These are just my observations as a player and college teacher. For those of you who don't want anything to do with teaching, I'm not suggesting that you get an education degree. In that case, you should practice hard while earning a degree in something marketable.

Why is doing the double major a bad idea? When you do a performance degree, you don't just practice all day long. There are classes that you take and opportunities opened up that would not normally be available. Myself and several other people I know have decided to add a performance degree to the education degree for what I think are the same reasons this fellow wants to. If you're going to be doing the practicing and recitals required regardless, you might as well go the distance and get the degree. For me personally, the difference between just an Ed degree and the double is a half hour and hour long recital, two semesters in a repertoire class and extra credits in studio. I think it's worth it.

I have a friend that is a mechanical engineering major. He told tales of studying for 40 hrs a week. If you want good grades, don't take the double major route. Like someone said (sean, I think) it means playing a little tuba on the side.

College is a different ride. Perhaps what you should do is go into it without a major. Be undeclared for a semester or even a year, just take generals and play your tuba. That will give you some time to figure out what you actually want to do. If you are doing the engineering thing because "that will land me a job" dont count on it. The engineering field, if it isnt already, will be overflowing in 4-5 years or whenever you get out of college.

When people project good majors for college kids to get into, they are looking at the job market at the time of entrance to college. Keep in mind that you and your parents are not the only people that are reading those publications. They are a joke because 5 million other people are reading about it and unless you are the best of the best, you will get run over and not get a job in a field you really didnt want to be in in the first place. Case in point: four years ago, computer science was the way to go. Lots of kids did it because they were told that the job market was wide open. the result was that the field got flooded with way too many individuals recently, and is no longer a good prospect.

So what is my point? Do what makes you happy. If something doesn't turn your crank, dont do it because life is too short to waste time on something that is supposed to be "useful" and that really just kills what you want to do.

Millions of people go through midlife crisises and buy expensive cars and boats, just because they got stuck in a stupid job 20 years ago, and they finally wake up when the money is no longer as much of a motivator as it once was. you can avoid all of this: Instead of doing something in college just to get a job, do something you enjoy, and then worry about money when you need to. You dont have to have a "career" right when you get out of college. Lots of very happy people dont.

Mr. Mudman, I resent that comment that a music performance degree is worthless unless its from eastman. **** that. I can still play a mean tuba if I set my mind to it. sorry I just feel a little strongly about that.

Ryan_Beucke wrote: Why is doing the double major a bad idea? When you do a performance degree, you don't just practice all day long. There are classes that you take and opportunities opened up that would not normally be available. Myself and several other people I know have decided to add a performance degree to the education degree for what I think are the same reasons this fellow wants to. If you're going to be doing the practicing and recitals required regardless, you might as well go the distance and get the degree. For me personally, the difference between just an Ed degree and the double is a half hour and hour long recital, two semesters in a repertoire class and extra credits in studio. I think it's worth it.

Either you can play or you can't. Adding the title of "performance" to an education degree means nothing practical in the real world. It will not give you any advantage in the job market, with the possible exception of teaching private high-school students. They might want to study with somebody who has a "performance degree" thinking that the degree is the equivalent of a superior musician.

I'm a fan of studying what you want to. Basically what I am saying is that once you have completed that first degree in music, move on. No point in sticking around to earn an extra title that won't give you any benefits (unless you feel like spending another year hanging out and practicing--not that there is anything wrong with doing so.)

adam0408 wrote:Mr. Mudman, I resent that comment that a music performance degree is worthless unless its from eastman. **** that. I can still play a mean tuba if I set my mind to it. sorry I just feel a little strongly about that.

I'm sure you can play a mean tuba--it is not my intention to put down anybody who has earned a performance degree. Studying music is one of the most enjoyable things I could imagine doing.

That said, a piece of paper carrys no weight in the real world of music, with the exception of some very well-known schools. Even then, there are bad musicians who earn degrees from those institutions.

Try and get a playing job with a performance degree from XYZ State University. The degree means nothing. Being able to play means everything.

Mudman wrote:Try and get a playing job with a performance degree from XYZ State University. The degree means nothing. Being able to play means everything.

This applies to any field even engineering, you either know your stuff or you do not.

A piece of paper is indeed just a piece of paper. What you do with what you know is the only thing that matters.

Life has put in me some unique and somewhat bizarre situations to serve on committees to do upper management interviews in Fortune 500 settings. The first thing I learned was that applicants with MBAs from the "elite name universities" are often far less desirable than some with paper from small community colleges who worked their tails off to get to where they were. Drive, ambition and work ethic matter most.

UTSA. Music Ed. Major. As far as double majoring in engineering AND music, boy you've got your work cut out for you. Those who major in music don't NEED a minor. There's enough to do with it. If you can do it more power to you. As it is with my one major I'm at school or doing something for school about 55hrs. a week. And that's not including my job...




Ralph

There are playing opportunities you get in college that aren't available anywhere else. Its hard to find a chance to rehearse and play the Mahler symphonies with an orchestra while working at Burger King.
The degrees themselves are just as Bloke said, mostly only good for teaching. The playing part depends solely on how much you want to put into it. If you take full advantage of what a good music school has to offer, you can be well prepared for a playing career. A conservatory is ideal for this, but not required. Just try and find a school with a teacher who has had a playing career and a music school with enough venues for you to explore (Michigan is good).
As long as you remember this, NO music school will magically endow you with great chops and a career. Many have made this mistake and have not left school with either of those traits. They always quote the same old saws, "college was a waste of my time" or "I should have gone to conservatory A instead of university B" etc. They put forth minimal effort and got minimal results.
Bottom line is that going to college is not required for a playing career, but it can certainly help prepare you if you willing to do the work. Talent alone is not enough.

Hey, if it's the degree you're after, there are places like this aplenty:

http://www.kepler.edu/mission.html

I plan to attend Indiana State University in the fall of 2005 majoring in music education with a minor in jazz studies. My principal instrument is tuba and my other is trumpet hopefully go to graduate school and work on performance for my tuba

Music performance + engineering.
I did that.
But, they were a good 20 years apart, the music degree coming first.

BOTH of them required HUGE amounts of time; the performance degree was many, many, MANY hours of practice a day, plus the classes.
The engineering degree was many, many, MANY hours of study a day, just for the classes. Unless you are a prodigy in music and a genius in engineering, you will have difficulty doing both at once, at least in four years' time. Consider six years.

What the performance degree did for me....was allow me to get a tuition scholarship when getting the engineering degree, because they wanted me in the orchestra. Music tuition scholarships are pretty easy to get, because it's so hard to make a living once you get out. Engineering tuition scholarships are tough to get, because you don't need to "encourage" people to study engineering.

The job market in engineering varies widely year by year; the year I graduated I had six job offers. A year later I might have had one or two. People with a B+ average in the year I graduated had to interview quite well in order to get a job offer they were interested in.

The best thing I could have done when I was a music major, given that I wanted to perform, was chuck the degree altogether and find a way to have the best teacher I could find give me lessons, and practice my tail off for several years, without significant interruptions or other responsibilites. I could still have gone back later for the engineering degree; I think two (2) courses transferred between the degrees, an English comp course and an anthro elective.

The advice to figure out what you love and do it is good advice. Sometimes we still crash and burn when we find out we don't love it like we thought we did, and have to go do something else anyway.

MA, who likes both the job and the income better as an EE

MaryAnn wrote:The advice to figure out what you love and do it is good advice. Sometimes we still crash and burn when we find out we don't love it like we thought we did, and have to go do something else anyway.

Yeah, Mary Ann--if the music thing doesn't work out, you can always take a day job that pays the bills:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4970633/