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So at what threshold does a player decide that they need to acquire specialty equipment?

I am performing Verdi's La Forza del Destino tonight on tuba (unpaid) and I doubt anyone is going notice the discrepancy, but if there is a need I may decide to pony up.

Trying to decide what that need is. More than once a season? When money is involved? Cuz I wanna?

Frankly, I'd ask the conductor first. Imagine that you bought a cimbasso, brought it to rehearsal, and he didn't like or want it -- "Thanks, but bring your tuba next time." That would suck.

That is... as amateurs, we get a lot of control over our equipment, and when we show up with what we've got, it's what we get to use... by accident or by design. If you've been showing up with a tuba, then the conductor knows that's an option. Show up with a cimbasso, and he'll know that you still have the tuba, and it's an option... which he may prefer.

I'd like to say that the conductor won't notice, but with as harsh as a cimbasso can be, I'd sure hope that he would notice!

Unpaid??

I'd play the part on a banjo and dare him to complain!!

bloke wrote:- have the money (not just the "credit")
- want it more than the money

Words of wisdom.

Ace

Most of the stuff I do these days is unpaid. Didn't stop me from buying a very serious main axe. I still want to do it justice though even under exceptional conditions. But there is no two-way financial consideration here (spend money to make money). I don't want to get into a situation where I buy a horn for a run of shows and then flip it right after because "I'm just not using it that much anymore". Lots of for sale ads out there with similar description.

I don't think I know anyone who has one to lend but I could be wrong.

Conductor is well educated on these matters but also aware of the limitations of community groups in general. He would applaud the use of special equipment but probably is the only person in the group apart from the low brass who could accurately describe a cimbasso and where it came from.

Over the holidays we did a few shows of the Nutcracker full ballet. The final night, our celesta player was a no-show (sugarplum fairies). In an emergency one of the percussionists offered to fake it on the glockenspiel and was fairly convincing. We opted to skip the movement completely.

You seem to have a pretty good handle on the financial part of this equation so I'll offer a couple of other things to think about:

1) You will enjoy performing works written for cimbasso on cimbasso. This was the very first thing I noticed when I started using mine. Working on it in a practice room is one thing, using it on a Verdi or Puccini work (especially one you have played many times on tuba) is a revelation. I was astounded at how much easier and natural playing such pieces became compared to the work involved doing them on tuba. For me, this difference was drastic.

2) I bought mine to help get me more work (financially viable) but I had no idea just how much more work it would garner. Right now, cimbassi are in demand in certain situations and having one (and being able to really play it) was a big boost to the number of calls I started receiving for my services. I guessed it would take me years for mine to pay for itself. It actually took just over 1 year. The subsequent 14 years have been pure profit.

Good luck with your decision. Also, make sure you try various cimbassi to see which one fits you best. Many on this board know I am a strong supporter of Rudolf Meinl instruments. Their cimbasso didn't fit me nearly as well as the Meinl Weston I now own. Just like with tubas, try before you purchase!

I thought this was about the cimbasso volume threshold before the string players beg for a shield.

bloke wrote:you had better have one that has decent valves (that move...and move better than some of the out-of-the-box asian valves move)

I know precisely what is meant by this having experienced it firsthand on a tuba. In my opinion, still the most serious boat anchor of the quote affordable instruments, especially considering how much they have improved in other areas.

Ed Jones wrote:I thought this was about the cimbasso volume threshold before the string players beg for a shield.

This only makes me want to buy one even more now.

I used a borrowed Chinese clone cimbasso this past weekend on La Forza (with the Music Director's approval) and everyone, including the MD, loved it. Even the string players who were in the line of fire didn't complain too much.

chronolith wrote:

bloke wrote:you had better have one that has decent valves (that move...and move better than some of the out-of-the-box asian valves move)

I also sport the "Asian knockoff" It is a great horn, but as Bloke mentioned, in those licks in "La Forza," you just can't "mash the valves" like you can with pistons. But then if you do run the lick a couple of times and get it comfortably under you fingers, you can manage to play with much less "forza." Actually, velocity comes with smaller finger strokes very nicely.

But getting back to the point of the post. When does a tuba player want or feel they need to pop for a cimbasso? Hey, anytime. There are plenty of places to use it. Just use some imagination. We all don't play in opera orchestras. And... it's not just for novelty. It has many justifiable uses musically in symphony orchestra (especially pops charts), symphonic band, chamber brass, trombone choir, jazz band and more. If there is a place for a tuba or bass trombone, there can be a place for the cimbasso. Granted you might need some salesmanship with certain "less informed" conductors. You know your situation. Someplaces you can just bring it and use it. Others, where the "stick is prickly" well, you'll have to deal with that.

The "asian" clones are in F or Eb so it is presumed you have fingers for those keys. (other companies also build them in CC & BBb) If you have never played one, they are seductive.
Actually compared to a tuba, they take much less wind and just seem to dance. With the other trombones, it is indeed like another member of the family. It makes so much sense. I suppose you could use a slide "Contrabass 'bone" But many of us, speaking for myself, really do not have the greatest slide technique. Though the contras are a lot less expensive. (around $1500 or the BBb)

Getting used to what you want to sound like, might take some time. Mouthpieces make a huge difference in how it will blend with trombones, as will your concept on airstream. Those who have played one take up on this pretty quickly. While granted they look a little "fierce" (and we tend to dramatize that to our unsuspecting colleagues in the orchestra) they are very cool to listen to and probably less "fierce" than an agressive trombone player.

I've even used mine in church as a special music solo in "Joshua." They can also be easily muted to blend with a muted bone section.
I'd love to see more of them used imaginatively. Just this past summer, we featured a cimbasso trio in a chart I wrote for brass band on "Ghost Riders." Great audience appeal.

Go for it. You may just be sorry you waited so long.

PM

Ed Jones wrote:I thought this was about the cimbasso volume threshold before the string players beg for a shield.

You aren't doing it right if the strings don't have a shield!