TubeNet

KyleRichter wrote:I personally feel that used is always the way to go when trying to find an affordable horn. Depending on which Mack or JP models you're considering affordable, a used B&S symphonie or Meinl Weston from 30-40 years ago could be in a similar price range, and won't really lose any value after purchase. The Mack and JP horns seem to be popular, but they would immediately be worth less once you buy it (like a new car off the lot), and the resale market for them has yet to be tested.

mctuba1 wrote:

KyleRichter wrote:I personally feel that used is always the way to go when trying to find an affordable horn. Depending on which Mack or JP models you're considering affordable, a used B&S symphonie or Meinl Weston from 30-40 years ago could be in a similar price range, and won't really lose any value after purchase. The Mack and JP horns seem to be popular, but they would immediately be worth less once you buy it (like a new car off the lot), and the resale market for them has yet to be tested.

Really?

KyleRichter wrote:I personally feel that used is always the way to go when trying to find an affordable horn. Depending on which Mack or JP models you're considering affordable, a used B&S symphonie or Meinl Weston from 30-40 years ago could be in a similar price range, and won't really lose any value after purchase. The Mack and JP horns seem to be popular, but they would immediately be worth less once you buy it (like a new car off the lot), and the resale market for them has yet to be tested.

bisontuba wrote:

KyleRichter wrote:I personally feel that used is always the way to go when trying to find an affordable horn. Depending on which Mack or JP models you're considering affordable, a used B&S symphonie or Meinl Weston from 30-40 years ago could be in a similar price range, and won't really lose any value after purchase. The Mack and JP horns seem to be popular, but they would immediately be worth less once you buy it (like a new car off the lot), and the resale market for them has yet to be tested.

A used B&S 5v Symphonie that I am told needed lots of bottom bow work and a full rotor job just went for under $2k on German eBay....BTW, it was pick up in Dresden only....

KyleRichter wrote:I'm not sure which part of my post you're saying "really" to. So...

Yes really, buying a new horn means you won't be able to resell it for the same amount you paid for it (this has nothing to do with the quality, but just the fact it's now used). If you buy an older tuba that's already used, it's fairly likely you will be able to resell it for around the same price you paid.

If someone is looking for an affordable tuba, that is potentially a stepping stone for a bigger purchase down the line, financially it makes more sense to me to get a horn you'll lose less money on. If they're looking for an affordable tuba that they plan on absolutely keeping the rest of their life, then pick whatever horn they like, used or new, that's in that price range.

Well you pretty much singled out my horns as well as JP. So i will ask you, what do you base your opinion on? To say that they will immediately take a hit without any real evidence is wrong. The last i checked there was a Mack F that sold for 3100.00 and knowing what the buyer paid for it i can say he didn't loose a dime. Can you say this about a 10k brand name horn? I don't think so. To paint with a broad brush and make a statment without any data to back it is where i made my comment " really? "


I will say this, when you look at the resale of many of the popular horns i sell i would venture to say that the resale value is stronger than their counterparts across the pond.

DP wrote:

KyleRichter wrote:this isn't a thread about the quality of the horns, I never once mentioned anything in that vein, so I'm not sure why you're reacting so negatively. I simply stated my opinions on affordable f tubas, and what I felt was a smarter financial move.

Reread your post, you singled out two dealers, you were pretty specific. All i mentioned and i stand behind my experience when I say "my horns will hold more value on the used market than those coming from across the pond. As to the used market in general you are absolutly correct in that you do get a bang for your buck as those horns have usually taken a 30 to 50 percent hit from their initial new price and will likely take 20 years before those prices are once again realized.


but it is a web site about the sponsors, you haven't gotten that yet?
and the sponsors can be pretty touchy about their wares, especially
since they target "affordable" and incessantly hammer the term
until you believe it is important

stupid consumers deserve to be targeted for sales,
in the old days we'd have said this violates a social justice paradigm
but who gives a **** anymore right?

KyleRichter wrote:

You seem to imply heavily that a used Mack Brass horn can be sold for the same price as a new one, which I just don't see.

DP wrote:

mctuba1 wrote:

DP wrote:
but it is a web site about the sponsors, you haven't gotten that yet?
and the sponsors can be pretty touchy about their wares, especially
since they target "affordable" and incessantly hammer the term
until you believe it is important
stupid consumers deserve to be targeted for sales,
in the old days we'd have said this violates a social justice paradigm
but who gives a **** anymore right?

So now your going to paint with a broad brush? Really? I rarely post on this board but when I see such ingorance i find it difficult to not respond.
Fist off if it wasn't for the sponsors of this board you wouldn't have a place to post your rants as its people like me and the few others that make it possible. There will always be haters and those that hate will never grow. There are those who are open to new ideas and those people will take everything else to the next highest level.

Gosh Tom, when you get bent you really flail about. Do you want us to say "thank-you for coming along to fund tubenet"? Do you want us to ignore the appearance that sponsors can feel entitled to do whatever they want here because of coin thrown to the guy making money off this site? And -choke- are you really suggesting that "affordable" is a "new idea" and we need to be open-minded to you in order to "get to the next level"?? To use your word, really?!?
News flash: this bbs is a playground, there may be some folks who take your biz as seriously as you do, but (painful as it may seem) there are also folks who don't give a rats behind whether your biz sinks or swims. Is killing discussion about certain specialty horn "markets" part and parcel your goal here? There are a lot of great used first-f tubas out there in closets, unused, that people have investments in and because of the advent of "affordable" stuff (like you sell) they have to take a significant depreciation hit if they want to sell them and upgrade. And because of that reality at least some of those horns remain in closets. That depreciation hit is bigger than it used to be because of your wares, and your effort to distribute them. Two way street, you want your profit, there is an impact upon your market. No one is unfairly pointing that out. Like curmudgeon pointed out, the rest of us need a constant reminder that the f tuba market amongst tuba players is not growing...just like curmudgeon said .... and that said the depreciation hit on the next affordable knockoffs WILL be disproportionately larger, that is basic economics and NOT a personal slam on you...nor meant to put you on the defensive or elicit truly insulting retorts. We GET that you want to sell **** (duh) ... and I personally think you contribute far more to this site in your occasional posts than your colleague/competition in the UK ...but the overweaning sense of entitlement to your market ...or this site...because you have a financial horse in the race? well, thats just a **** up part of reality I guess... and exactly the reason I mentioned that whole social justice paradigm thingy ....in the end you don't need to worry because no one really gives a **** why you sell, or really what you sell, really -30-

You see, in the 1860s, tobacconist John Hull created an elaborate, money-making hoax in which he had a 10-foot-tall stone statue of a man carved and then buried in Cardiff, New York. The giant stone man was then dug up again and Hull was now able to sell it as an archaeological oddity. In 1869, Hannum and four business partners took the bait and paid $37,500 for the worthless artifact thinking that they could turn a profit by charging people to get a glimpse of it. A lot of buzz was generated about the giant (was he a petrified biblical figure? an ancient Native American statue? a distant ancestor of Bill Walton?), and as thousands of people began to pay good money to get a gander, it looked like Hannum’s investment was going to pay off quite nicely. That is, until clever P. T. Barnum entered the picture. Always the sly one, Barnum built a giant of his own and claimed that it was the true Cardiff Giant – a fake of a fake! When people flocked to see Barnum’s creation, hapless Hannum (who didn’t even know at that point that he himself had paid roughly 40 grand for a fake) mused at the on-lookers, “There’s a sucker born every minute.”