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I'm sure many of you are familiar with the Vaughn Williams. On the first page the concerto where there is the low F-Gb arpeggio up to the high C, what advice can you give on how to execute this well? It really is incredibly hard. Is there any secret pro-tips that people have that help them?

58mark wrote:

one.kidney wrote:I'm sure many of you are familiar with the Vaughn Williams. On the first page the concerto where there is the low F-Gb arpeggio up to the high C, what advice can you give on how to execute this well? It really is incredibly hard. Is there any secret pro-tips that people have that help them?

what tuba are you playing it on?

C tuba.

I edited my answer when I went back and looked at your history to find your tuba type[/quote]

I never thought about using 1-2-4 for the Bb. I'll try it out. Thanks!

Approach the run with just a little more length to the first note (low F).
Also realize that you quickly need to draw in the aperture (the size of the lip opening) of your embouchure as y ou ascend so as to be able to reign in the upper range. A lot of things need to happen quickly, but carefully. Whenever I want to run this movement I always begin by playing that passage very slowly so as to get each note dead on, and in one breath - tapering the dynamic nicely on the top. When it works the way I would like, it is like a ripple of tone. There is also a tonguing issue, where by the jaw and corners need to remain secure and the tongue hitting securely behind the teeth in perfect rhythm. An emphasis on the first note of each slur is appropriate. It is a very challenging passage and if all the required elements are in place you will eventually succeed nicely and it will no longer seem difficult. But I would start out very slowly and work on the slur two tongue two pattern.

one.kidney wrote:I'm sure many of you are familiar with the Vaughn Williams. On the first page the concerto where there is the low F-Gb arpeggio up to the high C, what advice can you give on how to execute this well? It really is incredibly hard. Is there any secret pro-tips that people have that help them?

First of all, hard is a relative term. Everything is hard (walking, riding a bike, playing a musical instrument, etc.), until you learn how to do it.

Second, there are no such things as "pro tips." Accomplished players make certain things sound "easy" because they have put in a lot of time on the fundamental aspects of playing, and have gradually learned how to crawl, then walk, then run.

In order to play it at tempo, you must start at a tempo where you can play it right more times than you play it wrong. Otherwise, you are learning it wrong. I once heard an interview with the Principal Trumpet in Houston discussing lessons he had when he was a student in Chicago with Bud Herseth. The student was playing an etude and made a mistake. When he started it over at the same tempo, Herseth yelled at him. "No, you have to play it slow enough that not even YOU can make the mistake again." He then told the student that slow practice was his secret. He said, "Nobody practices things as slow as I do, and that's my secret." So, I guess I just contradicted myself. Slow practice was the secret of one of the greatest pros of all time.

Developing the ability to play a fast run over a couple of octaves has to be approached in the same manner. Learning the lick you reference is simple (but not easy). Almost inevitably, when notes, like the low F and Gb don't speak, it is because the lip is not precisely vibrating those pitches into the cup of the mouthpiece. In order for any note to speak, two things must occur. The lips must vibrate the correct pitch, as centered as possible, and the instrument must be set to the correct length to resonate the vibration (i.e., the right buttons need to be pushed). Brass players get into trouble when they focus on pushing the buttons and lose track of sending the correct pitch into the mouthpiece.

The best way to know for sure you are sending the correct pitch into the mouthpiece is to play the passage on the mouthpiece alone. The low register can be very challenging on the mouthpiece alone, so adding some resistance will help. Devices such as a BERP are helpful in this regard. Warburton also makes a buzzing aid called the Buzzard. My personal preference is a short length of plastic hose (1/2 inch inside diameter), cut to 4" (10 cm) in length. This tubing extends the mouthpiece just enough to add some resonance and resistance, making it a little easier to start the lips vibrating. I also like the BERP because you can attach it to the receiver and go back and forth quickly from the mouthpiece to the instrument when working on a passage. This also has the added benefit of being able to finger the valves while you are buzzing the notes. This not only helps with the coordination of the fingers and lips, but the instrument provides a psychological stimulus that helps you hear the notes in your head.

So, for the passage in the VW, start very slowly, playing the passage in slur, playing it on the mouthpiece, until it is perfect, and then kick the tempo up a notch. It will take time, but if you practice in this manner, you will get where you want to go.

Hope this helps.

Jason Ham taught me this one: take your metronome and set it to half the tempo (50 bpm for a 100 bpm section). Play 3 takes perfctly. If you mess up, go back to take 1. When you play 3 takes perfectly, bump up the bpm 2 clicks. Continue until you reach the marked tempo You can now play it.

Play the entire passage EXTREMELY slowly and concentrate on hitting the center of each pitch. Also concentrate on letting (not forcing) massive amounts of air into the instrument. Do this dozens of times until the fingerings and pitches seem to flow more easily. Then speed it up just a little bit. I do this with a metronome set at a tempo so slow that you have plenty of time to think, press down the proper fingers and sound a good pitch before going on to the next note in succession. When you can execute the passage accurately at the slow tempo, move the tempo on the metronome ahead 2 clicks, but, do not look at the number of the new tempo. I have found that an advance of two more beats per minute sounds like the slower tempo that you just played successfully. Repeat this process until you think you are at what you think to be a good tempo then look at the metronome setting. Because of the repetition you may find yourself playing the passage faster than you thought you were playing with great accuracy due to your attention to detail at the slow tempi. This is a slow, tedious process. But, that is how you develop finger technique and accuracy of pitch. In addition to an art form, music is also a discipline.

Fedderly, Bobo and me were sitting in with a power trio.

I ask them the best way to approach my part.

They both chimed in and said "just feel it, man!!"

I says, "that's just what that crazy dude in TN said!!"

In the Roger Bobo Mastering the Tuba book, he actually explains his method for learning passages like this and this specific passage is the example he shows in the book. His method is to learn it one note at a time. So only play the first note, then play the 1st and 2nd, then the first 3, then 4 etc., but make sure you are doing them correctly each time.

I have used a few things, including the Bobo one.

You could learn it at half speed perfectly and speed it up little by little(Jason Ham method). You could mess with which 16ths you play...meaning play only the 1st note of each 16th note grouping, then playing the 1st and 3rd notes, then the 1st and 4th, then the first and 2nd, then 1,2 and 4, then 1, 3, and 4, then finally putting them together.

The key to truly learning music is to make it easy for you. Arnold Jacobs said he used to practice at Curtis and make his music playable "if it was too fast, I played it slow...too slow, I sped it up. Too high, I took it down an octave, too low, up. My instincts told me...Don't sound bad"

if you can't hear it you can't play it. That usually means you need to sing it, buzz it, and then play it.

Good luck!