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I have a problem with my first valve linkage. The screw circled below (which attaches the linkage to the top of the valve) is problematic. It gets loose after about 5 seconds of playing, and when I try to tighten it, I can turn it maybe about 1/3 of a turn, and feel it tightening... and then it "pops back" to being loose. This is a terrible description, so I hope it makes sense.



Any thoughts on how to fix it? Do I need a new screw or (gasp!) need to take it into the shop? I'm a guy with no time and no real know-how other than the simplest of things (take apart and put back together the same way). That is... if there's any actual "repair" to be done, I'll have to take it in.

Thanks!

Hmmmmmm.... have you taken a screw out of another rotor linkage arm and screwed it into #1 to see if it is the screw or the threads in the hole you are putting the screw into?

Thanks guys... No, I didn't have a chance to switch out screws yet, and no, its not the original linkage. I'll try the screw swap this weekend sometime.

The previous owner (a very good repairman) made the conversion.

bort wrote:Thanks guys... No, I didn't have a chance to switch out screws yet, and no, its not the original linkage. I'll try the screw swap this weekend sometime.

The previous owner (a very good repairman) made the conversion.

Assuming the threads are correct, you may look into using some Loctite, get the blue stuff as this will keep the screw in place.

If the threads are not correct then re-taping may be in order but hopefully you wont need that.

Thanks Tom... is Loctite a *fix* or a *workaround*? I'm looking for a long-term solution here, and not something that might fail at the worst possible time.

Thanks!

bort wrote:Thanks Tom... is Loctite a *fix* or a *workaround*? I'm looking for a long-term solution here, and not something that might fail at the worst possible time.

Thanks!

If the threads are correct then loctite should fix the problem long term. If the threads are close but not entirely correct then it will be temporary. Now there are different types of loctite and some are very strong. Go to a local auto parts store and ask them what they have. I have used the blue locktite in the past. When using it all you will need is just a little drop and it will work its way into the threads.

Good luck.

Thanks... I might just take it into the shop and handle something else at the same time.

Thanks!

Take it to a shop. They may have a screw that works better in their parts bin, or a tool to tap it to the proper thread size. Thread locker may be a bandaid if the threads are way off

Do you have the original parts? It's a shame, in my opinion, that the originals were replaced with the minibals you have. Although it is probably the most expensive solution to the problem, I think I'd make it a point to try to get the original linkage back on that tuba. The company is still in business and that model is still manufactured so it's actually possible to do that. Yes, I can imagine that it's not cheap to order those parts if you don't have them.

Personally I would not use loctite on it.That's a band-aid solution and not a fix. There are plenty of applications for loctite, but I wouldn't use it as a long-term fix on a high end tuba like your Willson.

I wonder why they were changed

Tom wrote:Do you have the original parts? It's a shame, in my opinion, that the originals were replaced with the minibals you have. Although it is probably the most expensive solution to the problem, I think I'd make it a point to try to get the original linkage back on that tuba. The company is still in business and that model is still manufactured so it's actually possible to do that. Yes, I can imagine that it's not cheap to order those parts if you don't have them.

Personally I would not use loctite on it.That's a band-aid solution and not a fix. There are plenty of applications for loctite, but I wouldn't use it as a long-term fix on a high end tuba like your Willson.

I wonder why they were changed

I bought this from Norm Epley last summer, and he did the minibal linkage conversion. From what I've learned from him and the previous owner, I think the rotor paddles were previously modified. Possibly to make it a LH rotor tuba, possibly just to make the linkages shorter...? Not quite sure, but when it got to Norm, it *did* have the original linkages, but they were shortened to the point where Norm found the rotors difficult to reach... so he replaced the linkages with Minibals. It was likely a matter of costs of why Minibal was chosen over ordering Willson linkages.

Norm forwarded me an email from Willson with a price quote for a whole new set of linkages, and it's neither cheap nor prohibitively expensive. It's on the to-do list, but not something I can afford to do just yet. Norm does good work, and the Minibals work very well... so if/when I change it back, it won't quite be out of necessity.

For now though, I'm taking it to Eric Peterson sometime later this week to fix this screw, check the others, and maybe make some sort of more human (or humane?) fifth valve lever. Loctite would get me through a rehearsal, but you're right, I'm looking for a permanent fix, not a workaround.

Thanks!

Tom wrote:Do you have the original parts? It's a shame, in my opinion, that the originals were replaced with the minibals you have. Although it is probably the most expensive solution to the problem, I think I'd make it a point to try to get the original linkage back on that tuba. The company is still in business and that model is still manufactured so it's actually possible to do that. Yes, I can imagine that it's not cheap to order those parts if you don't have them.

Personally I would not use loctite on it.That's a band-aid solution and not a fix. There are plenty of applications for loctite, but I wouldn't use it as a long-term fix on a high end tuba like your Willson.

I wonder why they were changed

Just my opinion, but I did not really like the Willson linkages on my 3100 RZ4... they are quite heavy.
The miniballs on my Miraphone are much quicker!
Maybe it's also the rotor itself that is lighter on the Miraphone, don't know, but I would have seriously considered replacing the willson linkage with miniball, with what I know now.

I've heard that as well... And also that the Willson linkages are kind of overengineered and a little annoying to adjust.

Besides this one issue, the minibal linkages have been quick and quiet. Even still, when I get the $ for it, I'll consider it.

Quick update -- didn't get the horn to the shop last week, but had a few minutes today to tinker with it.

The screw itself is fine. The hole that it screws into is completely stripped out (doesn't even catch 1/3 of a rotation anymore, jus t slide the screw right in. So... time to get that fixed, because I can't do jack with the horn until then.

Kind of crazy to think that one tiny thing renders a $20k horn completely useless!

Some F horns and trombone rotors use #5 screws. I've been known to drill and tap all of those holes to accept those screws.

bloke wrote:

TubaTinker wrote:Some F horns and trombone rotors use #5 screws. I've been known to drill and tap all of those holes to accept those screws.

wow That's the size of the male threads on the bottoms of the pro-model valve stems...

?? A #5 thread only has an OD. of .1250" (or 3.1750mm). That's not a 'monster' thread.