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I've been informed by Jonathan Hodgetts of Wessex that I have mis-interpreted what he said about the MTS of early Berg tubas. I contend that my Berg, being from the second batch, has a MTS that is too long and should be corrected by Wessex under their 3 year warranty against manufacturing defects. Mr. Hodgetts contends that there is no issue with the MTS of my second batch Berg and that I simply play flat and that he never said that the MTS on any Berg was built too long.

The horn is flat with the MTS pushed all the way in. Initially, within the two week trial period, I believed I could deal with this slight flatness. But after some ensemble playing I was convinced otherwise. I've never had this issue with any other instrument.

This quote is from Mr. Hodgetts in post here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69184&hilit=berg&start=36" target="_blank" target="_blank


"Regarding the main tuning slide, the first batch were too short and had to be replaced with longer. It seems like second batch were then a little too long, but that was not obvious as we checked in the heat of the Chinese summer (98F)!

The fact that yours will not fit in case with 5th slide tells me it is one of these first two batches.

Now with the most recent production the slide length is hopefully good for everyone and all conditions, with case in which it will fit with the 5th valve slide inserted."

So help me out here Tubenet. Did Mr. Hodgetts say that second batch MTS length was too long or did he not? Maybe I'm crazy.

As an aside...should a MTS too long to play in tune from the factory be a warranty issue where a warranty is offered?

Aside #2...I post this reluctantly as I am not one for public drama, but I feel that a wrong has been committed here by a company that touts it's commitment to customer satisfaction.

Yes.

Do other people playing your horn also play flat?

bort wrote:Do other people playing your horn also play flat?

I couldn't tell you. There aren't any tuba players within 200 miles that practice on a regular basis to conduct such a test. But I can tell you that I have never played especially flat on any instrument. In the thread linked, bisontuba posted a picture of his Berg's MTS and it is visually far shorter than mine. And the fact that Jonathan stated that the MTS were to long tells me that at some point, he became aware of the issue.

bort wrote:Do other people playing your horn also play flat?

I second the above. From what I see Neptune is really trying to develop the Wessex name within JinBao by paying attention to details. It's hard for me to believe he would make it hard on you for this amount of money risking bad publicity. How about going to a tech shop and asking them how much would it be to shorten and refinish the slide and just ask Neptune to reimburse you for that? Maybe the leadpipe could be shortened 3/4 inch ? Sometimes we get excited and scream and the other side clamshells and there is no solution. Maybe I see this situation wrong but I don't understand how a good businessman like him would make it difficult on you for your good money?

Hi-
I received my Berg F the day before this past Thanksgiving. Mine came with two 5th valves slides since the correct one would not fit in the hard case (I sold the hard case afterwards and bought a used MTS case that fits it perfectly with the correct 5th valve slide). However, prior to receiving my horn, it was sent by Wessex to Sam Gnagey because they said the main tuning slide was too long. Sam unsoldered the main tuning slide on each side and shortened the tubing, then reattached the main tuning slide This way, you still had all the tubing to pull out if needed (say if muted, etc.---similar to what folks have done in the past with old Alex tubas). I know Sam tried my horn and really liked it. After this work was done and Wessex received it back from Sam, it was sent to me.
After receiving the Berg, it was tried by many folks both here and in Rochester and it was a big thumbs up. The pitch on mine is great up and down the horn (BTW, I use an original small Conn Helleberg on it). HOWEVER, if the main tuning slide work had NOT been done by Sam prior to my getting it, I would have returned it. Yes, different folks play differently--some sharper and flatter, but if a horn's main tuning slide is too long, flat is flat-period.

Here is my horn with the main tuning slide all the way in:



Here is my horn the way I play it with the main tuning slide out some:



I totally understand if you go to an instrument factory and the play testing area is either extremely cold or extremely hot, it can affect play testing as far as pitch is concerned. If extreme conditions occur again, I would suggest taking a tape measure to the testing facility to make sure things like main tuning slides....which seem to have been an issue on this model with either too short and/or too long...are the proper length before being sent out of Asia.

Wessex needs to fix the issue on your horn, and I truly hope this IS NOT a continued issue on the Berg F tubas. I love the way mine plays and sounds and highly recommend it UNLESS the main tuning slide issue is STILL an issue ( Side Note: I was told by a couple of people that the Berg F they tried at this past Army Tuba Conference had a VERY long main tuning slide making it flat--I wasn't there, so I can't confirm or deny what was told to me). If the main tuning slide is still a problem, I will have to recommend to folks they look elsewhere. Hopefully, as Larry mentioned above, Jonathan will correct the situation for you and the issue of Berg F main tuning slide problems will be a thing of the past!

I'll be curious how the Berg F tubas are as far as the main tuning slide issue is at ITEC. Keep us advised on your situation.
Best of luck!

Regards-
Mark
Buffalo

Hello,
I've had my Berg for just over a month (3rd batch) and I LOVE it. When I first started playing it, I had already read your post about the mts issue. So naturally I was skeptical about it. When I emailed Jonathan about it, I was told that if the mts needed to be cut that the cost would be covered under the factory warranty... now turns out with me that it was a bit of a placebo at first and after I used it for more than a couple days, I realized I play spot on in tune with my mts pulled out just under a quarter inch. For me that's fine as I'm not playing in sub zero temperatures. So, it seems the issue is fixed on the latest batch. I would be shocked if Wessex didn't cover the cost of getting your slide cut.

Here is what mine looks like pushed all the way in. Not quite the same as bisontuba's.

Here's mine (newest batch) from the same- ish angle and side note... nice rugs! Like I said I'd be very surprised if Wessex won't cover the cost to have the slide cut considering Jonathon told me that mine would be.

kmorgancraw wrote:Here is what mine looks like pushed all the way in. Not quite the same as bisontuba's.

Your horn looks like if you put it on your lap or use a tuba stand when playing, the main tuning slide--even all the way in--would be in the way--looks like it is almost below the bottom bow...yikes....

Well that is odd. I can't imagine why he'd tell you your cutting would be covered but I've been told three times now that it's just an issue with my playing and that it can't be covered.

[/quote]Your horn looks like if you put it on your lap or use a tuba stand when playing, the main tuning slide--even all the way in--would be in the way--looks like it is almost below the bottom bow...yikes....[/quote]

Yes I wish I could push in a little to bring the pitch up, but also so I'm not afraid of damaging the spit valve. I like using a stand (BBC) and if I'm not careful I inadvertently open the valve on the stand because it is touching the pad.

Neptune wrote:Hi Travis,

Thank you for your message and pleased you like the Berg. I myself think it has a rather special.

Regarding main tuning slide, they were initially too short and it sounds like we have now got near to too long, although tuning does depend on mouthpiece used, temperature and the individual playing. The length I will look out again - and if you feel yours needs shortening, we will cover the work under warranty.

Thank you for your support!

Best Wishes,
Jonathan

This was from a pm reply here on tubenet... kind of expecting Jonathon to chime in here once he finds this thread...

Whoa, just noticed a huge difference in the fifth valve linkage between our three horns... crazy. I'd like to just add as a reassurance to potential buyers of this horn, it seems that there may have been some rough edges to buff out when this horn was first released, but as for the latest batch, I'm not having any issues...

toakstertuba wrote:Whoa, just noticed a huge difference in the fifth valve linkage between our three horns... crazy. I'd like to just add as a reassurance to potential buyers of this horn, it seems that there may have been some rough edges to buff out when this horn was first released, but as for the latest batch, I'm not having any issues...

Oh yeah look at the it is way different. I have no issue with the horn other than the whole thing sits flat, it's a great playing tuba no doubt. But I am really confused as to why you were offered warranty service and my concern has been disregarded.

kmorgancraw wrote:

toakstertuba wrote:Whoa, just noticed a huge difference in the fifth valve linkage between our three horns... crazy. I'd like to just add as a reassurance to potential buyers of this horn, it seems that there may have been some rough edges to buff out when this horn was first released, but as for the latest batch, I'm not having any issues...

I have no issue with the horn other than the whole thing sits flat, it's a great playing tuba no doubt.

Agreed, 5th valve linkage looks like it has been 'cleaned up'/ more efficient....works great and in tune 5th slide on the horn...small tweaks/updates are expected (another example: engraving on front valve caps)....BUT the real issue remains for the Main Tunng Slide Length...

bisontuba wrote:

kmorgancraw wrote:

toakstertuba wrote:Whoa, just noticed a huge difference in the fifth valve linkage between our three horns... crazy. I'd like to just add as a reassurance to potential buyers of this horn, it seems that there may have been some rough edges to buff out when this horn was first released, but as for the latest batch, I'm not having any issues...

I have no issue with the horn other than the whole thing sits flat, it's a great playing tuba no doubt.

Agreed, 5th valve linkage looks like it has been 'cleaned up'/ more efficient....works great and in tune 5th slide on the horn...small tweaks/updates are expected...BUT the issue remains for the Main Tunng Slide Length...

I mean it could be a little shorter, but mine plays in tune with about a quarter inch to spare... you can see mine is almost an inch shorter. So I think it's fixed...

Ah, you mean the 5th v tubing, not about the linkage.....seems OK on my horn.. Maybe a slightly different wrap...who knows....the issue for some remains the main tuning slide....
Regards-
Mark

Send the whole thing back and ask it to be replaced with "one of the good ones."

I have just seen this thread. That is the first time I have seen photo of kmorgancraw particular Berg concerned. Does look like main tuning slide too long on that example - it is longer than on same batch of Berg that arrived in UK which I have referenced regarding tuning. I don't know how that long slide slipped through the quality assurance checking? So of course now I properly understand the problem, Wessex will credit for it to be shortened under warranty.

Sorry for this apparent error and to kmorgancraw for the misunderstanding (a situation where a picture is worth a thousand words).

We are checking another batch at factory this coming week, so will particularly ensure that the MTS issue is fixed once and for all!