TubeNet

Hi, I'm mainly a trombone/euphonium player and have got a tuba question.

In my city band I'm the only tuba (so I only actually play it 3 months out of the year) - my question is, when playing marches there are alot of divided notes - should I be taking all of the top notes, all the bottom notes, or whatever feels comfortable (which is what I've been doing)? Seeing as I'm the only tuba player...

Thanks!

TUBACHRIS85 wrote:From my experience, in being the ONLY tuba in the band, I would take the bottom notes, just for the fact that your are the BASS of the ensemble. You can play the upper lines, however, you would need another tuba player playing the bottom notes. So I would say to stick with the upper notes in the marches.


-tubachris

Yes but,
many times, the lower notes are so low that they are not very "ressonant" when the upper octave isnt present.
My two cents: if you are the only tuba, play what you feel is more efficient to musicallity.

take the bottom ones; it fills out the bottom of the band better

Schlep's pretty much right.

I'll add that it's a lot easier for an audience to hear a second-line Bb played FF than one an octave down, however. Study the way the bass line is phrased, so you know when an octave jump is appropriate. Maintain the shape of the bass line as much as possible--i.e. don't arbitrarily transpose notes.

My prof told me something interesting once. He said on some pieces where your playing the "basses" part, that the upper octave is for actual string basses who can't physically play as low a tuba, and told me to take the bottom octave. If the part is strictly for tuba though, I guess it's up to the performer (you).

That's just what I was told...

The one suggestion I would take from this thread as an "absolute" is that if you are the only tuba, and the split part is NOT just in octaves, but are two different parts of the chord, then always play the bottom notes.

When they part is just split in octaves, that's the time to use your musical judgment. Consider (honestly) how well your low range projects, and consider the rest of the instrumentation. For example, if the band is also low on trombones and euphs, then it might make more sense to play the upper octaves to avoid leaving such a big "hole" in the harmony.

Bottom line - consider what everybody here is spouting off, but then use your own judgment for each situation.

I find that playing top part on the first time through and the bottom part the second gives me a little perspective as to what sounds best; it also breaks up the strains a little bit for variety and gives equal work on both ranges. Come a performance, I play what sounds musically best.

dtemp wrote:My prof told me something interesting once. He said on some pieces where your playing the "basses" part, that the upper octave is for actual string basses who can't physically play as low a tuba, and told me to take the bottom octave. If the part is strictly for tuba though, I guess it's up to the performer (you).

That's just what I was told...

Huh. This brings up a related topic that at times really nags me. I've witnessed it many times in commonity and school bands and I don't understand it.

The bass section is comprised of, oh, let's say, 4 tubas. All are reading the same part which is labeled "Tuba" with several divisi sections.

All of the tubas are playing the lower note on the divisi (unless it's really low like a low F:?, then they're playing the upper note), No divisi playing at all. The director doesn't say "Tuba, isn't there a divisi section here?".

What gives? Is it the custom in US concert band playing that divisi are really ossia?

My rule of thumb has been "if it's written in the part, then someone had better be playing it. You certainly couldn't get away with "pick and choose" playing in a brass band.

Is this just ignorance on the part of players and band directors? Or is it viewed as a quaint artifact from the times when concert bands had both Eb and BBb basses?

Can someone enlighten me?

Chuck, I just went to an all-star band thing on Friday, where that was exactly the case. The principal, mog something on this board, actually told all the seconds (we played a piece with a tuba 1 and tuba 2 part) that they had to play the top note, and then it sounded fine. One guy kept dropping notes that weren't written as split, even after we asked him not to. I think tuba players get this idea that everything needs to be played as low as possible, and that the only reason things were written in the registers they are is because they couldn't go down an octave.

Sir,
You stated that you are THE tuba player.It also appears that the director is not dictating your every note.What an opportunity! You have a chance
to excercise some options in the tuba line to demonstrate your good taste
and do what lies best across your horn - a rare opportunity in a legitimate
ensemble.
In our trio,the guitarist records himself,live,playing guitar and singing on his supper club gig.I make a copy for me and our harmonica player and proceed to write my own bass line and drill it into memory.We meet together once to iron out details and the first time we play the new material on a gig we are tight because we did our reps with the tape and
our vocalist's voice has been spared,and our intros and endings are per the origional arrangement.Everybody's happy with thier part.

When I have played parts with splits we usually put the first player on the upper split because he usually has the biggest sound and such and we put the other 3 on the lower part because the lower chairs usually don't put out nearly as much sound. If it is in something other than octaves than we usually split it even, Tuba 1 and 4 on the upper with 2 and 3 on the lower or the other way around. I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it but it has worked well for me.

I know in the comunity band I play in there is an extra bass bone player that will usually play the split tuba parts and when there is only one he will play them when he isn't playing another part.

Ben Dennis

Fortissimosca wrote:Technically speaking, the bass part is written up an octave from what they are really playing, so they are really playing our octave.

Correct, the string bass sounds an octave lower than the written note (most of the time).

Fortissimosca wrote:The tuba can only go a few notes lower than the bass and actually sound somewhat decent ...

Uh, if the bass has the standard E string, then a tuba should be able to play several notes, maybe an octave, lower than the bass ans still sound good. If the bass has the extension to play down to C, then a few notes.

Fortissimosca wrote:(they're all pedal tones that go lower than the bass, and everyone would agree that they are pedal tones b/c they're that low)...

I wish the term pedal tones would just go away. (The tuba is not an organ, but the tuba is an organ stop isn't it?) If you are talking about a BBb or CC tuba, the Eb below the lowest E on the string bass is not a pedal tone.

I was going to resist saying anything but I will because this has not yet been said:

I was recently playing a sousa march (Black Horse Troop), edited by Fredrick Fennel (I believe) and there was a note at the bottom that said "in sousa marches, the bottom octave is always preferred" So if you play a sousa march, play the bottom. ALWAYS. I trust Fredrick Fennel. He knew more than I do, thats for sure.

adam0408 wrote:I was going to resist saying anything but I will because this has not yet been said:

I was recently playing a sousa march (Black Horse Troop), edited by Fredrick Fennel (I believe) and there was a note at the bottom that said "in sousa marches, the bottom octave is always preferred" So if you play a sousa march, play the bottom. ALWAYS. I trust Fredrick Fennel. He knew more than I do, thats for sure.

I've seen the notation too--and I think you're reading a different meaning into it than was intended. "Preferred" to me simply says that if you're able to put more instruments on the lower part than the upper part, you do it. The good Doctor did not say "play only the lower octave whenever possible".

If what was meant was "ignore the upper part", then why bother to include it? What end would be served by writing it out?

Have a look at:



Which is Sousa's own 1885 version of "Sound Off" from the Library of Congress. Note that the divisi sections have not been sprinkled in haphazardly. In fact, all notes in this part can be played on a 3-valve Eb tuba.

Now, if I had 4 tubas in the back row, would I put them all on the lower part? No--and I don't think that Dr. Fennell would have either. But you might put 3 on the lower part and 1 (strong player) on the upper. That's pretty much "preferring" the lower notes, isn't it?

Chuck, I'm looking at that score from Sousa and in my opinion,
I think that if we have more than one tuba we should not consider the octaves as Ossia in the 2nd section. Both octaves should allways be played in that context.

The octaves in the TRIO section are different in my point of view. those octaves could, in my point of view, be considered Ossia.

Back to the topic, for exemple, in the case of that march, I would play all the lower part if I was the only tuba.

Just my point of view.

It's probably already been said but it depends. If there just octaves, I like to take the lower ones. If they're actual split notes, then ask the conductor.







Ralph

schlepporello wrote:Having been the "only tuba" for 17+ years, I feel more than qualified to help you in your decision. Forget what everyone else is saying. Play what you feel most comfortable with. If you feel the uppers are better for certain songs and the lowers are better for others, go for it and don't look back. After all, what's the worst that will happen? Will they fire you?

I agree. I was going to post almost the exact same thing.

-Tabor

Not that I have been published very much,



If the split is octaves, and you are the only one, then usually the lower octave. There are usually bass clarinet, bass/third trombone, sometimes barifoneum parts that will double the upper octave.

The normal other split is perfect fifths. If this is the case, then the lower note is preferred as it is usually the root of the chord.

Of course, with the barifoneum parts, there are times when they are off playing nice countermelodies, melodies, or just trying to read treble clef when they are bass clef players.

Tom Mason

Tom Mason wrote: ...
Of course, with the barifoneum parts, there are times when they are off playing nice countermelodies, melodies, or just trying to read treble clef when they are bass clef players.

Tom Mason

Barifoneum!

Extraordinary name!!!

Yes. I know. I just think it's a beautiful name.

Never heard it before. wonderful name indeed.

Barifoneum. Bariphonium.

Wonderful