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We just picked up a third tuba in the last couple of weeks, so I'm not quite sure how this might change going forward, but I've always taken the upper octave, mostly because of the equipment I and the other tuba player have. He plays a Conn56J, and I play a Conn 10J -- SMALL 4/4, and only 3 valves. It has worked very well, as my smaller horn has a bit more natural lilt to it, and his larger horn has a lot more ka-pow in it.

My instinct is that the new player (Miraphone 186-5 CC) will PROBABLY usually play the lower octave, but occasionally one or the other will play the upper octave with me.
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Joe Baker, who adds that the false-tones on this horn also stink.

That´s a real interesting question.
For one thing, it shines a light on what is to be considered the principal tubists job.
In our community band we are three tubists, two BBbs and one (me) doubling on F/CC. The literature we play can be divided in the summer and winter program.
In summer, we play mostly polkas, marches, walzes and the likes, traditional Austrian and Czech beer tent music. As a rule, the tuba parts are in parallel octaves. Occasional "Quasi solo" passages tend to be written out for the higher part to let them dart out to the audience. So that´s what the F-horn gets to do.
There ain´t no messin´ with no intervals other than octaves in summer ! That would be gross, modern stuff !!
Winter pieces are concert band material, again some of that will be in octaves, but most of the time there´s just one tuba part with occasional divisions in up to three parts. At that season all of us play contrabass tubas, so we kinda try out what sounds best on each chord that is to be played.
It turned out that it is easier for me to hit the lowest registers that use 4th valve combinations, partly because mine is the only horn with a 5th valve.
So we kinda figure out what part is harder to play, and that´s what the principal tubist ends up doing.

In my community band there are usually two players of relatively equal skill, so we decide high/low by instrument. My little piston Marzan simply does not have the carrying power in the low end as my partner's larger Miraphone, so he gets the lows and I get the highs. Simple and effective!

This is what has been done in my experience with brass banding:

There is usually 4 or sometimes 5 tubas, with 2 (or sometimes 3) on Eb and 2 on Bb tuba. There is a lead player for both Eb and Bb, and one of these players will also be the section leader for all tubas. The lead Eb will usually play the upper split notes - because these tend to drift towards some solo work, and is also trying to blend with the Euphonium section and Bass Trombone. The lead Bb will make the decision whether he will play the written part, or be the 'ad lib pedal guy'.

I also have a personal thought/idea about the Bb situation, so here me out... I have sort of had a concern about the lead Bb doing the pedal work, then jumping up 2 octaves to do all the solo bits as well. My idea is to have a Bb in charge of the pedals and a Bb who stays in the written octave to also handle the solo bits as well. The idea that 1 player does both sort of makes the other guy feel like 'filler' in the section. I think every player should have a unique resposibility to help carry the section through - that way everyone feels that they are being of some use and they all stick together.

I think for the sake of consistency, there should be a strong idea as to what each member of the section will be doing. This also falls under the same idea as section breathing.

Sorry for the tangent topic here, just wanted to keep the thought process going... thanks.

Jonathantuba wrote:Never any problems in my band. I play the upper part on my Eb and the other tubist plays the lower on his BBb. That way we both play what is most appropriate for our respective instruments. Who plays the solos depends on their nature. A higher lyrical solo (e.g. as in Finlandia) I will play, while if it is a lower accompaniment solo, then the BBb will play.

I think having a section of bass tuba and contrabass tuba is a good idea to produce a balanced bass sound. Pity this is not the norm.

That is what happens in my band too. I play the BBb.
I agree that having a bass tuba and a contrabass tuba can be an advantage.

Anterux wrote:

Jonathantuba wrote:Never any problems in my band. I play the upper part on my Eb and the other tubist plays the lower on his BBb. That way we both play what is most appropriate for our respective instruments. Who plays the solos depends on their nature. A higher lyrical solo (e.g. as in Finlandia) I will play, while if it is a lower accompaniment solo, then the BBb will play.

I think having a section of bass tuba and contrabass tuba is a good idea to produce a balanced bass sound. Pity this is not the norm.

That is what happens in my band too. I play the BBb.
I agree that having a bass tuba and a contrabass tuba can be an advantage.

Me three, I play the top on my Eb and the other 4 split the parts between the top and bottom.

In the bands I play in, most of the time the players are very good at knowing what their capabilities are. We divvy up the high/low parts, solos, and ques very well. Don't you wish everybody did?

UF_pedal_tones wrote:So, has anyone ever taken this approach, or do you think the principal player should play the top part?

When I lived in San Antonio, I played in a section of four strong players (with me being the weakest). TubaRay was the section leader.

That experience taught me that the best player's role is to make sure that the most important sound gets produced. Sometimes that's a high part, and sometimes it's a low part. In that group, I frequently played F tuba, for the simple reason that I could contribute more there than being a weaker voice on the lower octave. That put the priorities where they needed to be--the better players made better sounds down low, and I filled a part within my reach on F that avoided diluting the needed strength on the lower part.

In my current group, things are different. We now have four players on the roster, but often only two or three at a time. I'm the section leader, but mostly because of seniority and because I'm the most consistently present. Thus, I make suggestions, but always within the context of what gets the music played the best. I suppose I rank second of the four in skill, but I also have the BAT. As a result, when it's me and the better player, I play low and he plays high. When it's me and one of the not-as-good players, I often keep us all on the lower part, because we don't have the strength in the lower octave to allow me to play the upper octave. When it's three and I'm the middle player, the better player often brings an F and plays the upper octave. When we are playing an orchestra transcription that doesn't need the weight of the BAT, I'll often bring an F and he'll play the lower octave.

It's the same when divying up solos. I'll enforce the solo marking when it's musically necessary, dividing the solos between myself and the better player, or taking them myself when he'd not there (which is too often). When there's a tuba part and a string bass part, the conductor usually wants both, and I'll do the string bass part on my big tuba. We'll divide up the other cues we are asked to play to preserve chops. It works well when the better player is there. When he's not, I usually have two roles--playing the higher cues and solos, and providing weight in the lower notes. I wish I could do it better.

The point is this: Do what contributes to the music. Rarely, in my experience, does that mean a fixed rule, unless the section is remarkably balanced. And that, too, is quite rare in my experience.

Rick "who misses being the weakest player in a strong section" Denney

Hmm...

Well, all of the above, counting the groups I've been in.

Sometimes we would happen upon a solo part in rehearsal, and the section leader (it was me for a while, but we've had others, too) would say, "Okay who wants this one?" If it was extra-difficult or more exposed, one of us better players would take it; otherwise we pretty much spread them out. It was pretty laid back, and nobody got upset about things anyway.

Split parts were usually the same, but again, the difficult stuff went to the better players. But, usually, it's beneficial to spread the good players among the splits, especially if the talent pool is shallow. For example, if all the "big dogs" are way below the staff, the weaker players in the upper split won't be able to give the best clarity to the section sound.

*edit -- addendum

As far as the distribution of the number of players is concerned, my thinking has changed in the past several years. I used to think that it was better to have more players on the bottom split, because I thought that it needed to be louder to be heard.

But, I've changed that to preferring more players on the upper split -- especially if that upper split is only in the middle register and the lower split has a few ledger lines. The real oomph comes from the middle register, and the bottom octave is always going to be heard simply because it's the only thing happening down there, provided that the bass drum isn't rolling the whole time.

So, I'd put fewer players on the bottom so that clarity is retained, and keep the other players in the middle register. If there's 6 tubas, two would be playing in the basement ("bassment".. heh). And, those two will be next to each other so that they can stagger breathe more easily.

"So, I'd put fewer players on the bottom so that clarity is retained, and keep the other players in the middle register. If there's 6 tubas, two would be playing in the basement ("bassment".. heh). And, those two will be next to each other so that they can stagger breathe more easily."

That approach works well in one band in which I play---5-6 tubas--- where I and another player pretty much always take the lower parts and the Eb and the other BBb's take the top almost as a matter of course. There is a section leader (just ask him!) that no one will listen to, so we kinda divvy it up.
In another group where there is just 2 tubas, it's simple--I take the top because the other guy has a fine lower register but lacks in the upper one.
In a third group, I am the only tuba, so I just play the part that works best for a particular number.

To my way of thinking and approach to sound, I've always considered it to be set on a 2/3 low to 1/3 high ratio. 3 tubas, 2 on lower octave, 1 on higher octave. 6 - 4 on bottom 2 on top.. 8 or 9... you get the point.

Whereas in my wind ensemble there are only 2 of us, we both play the lower octave when it is octave splits and when there are fifths, the set is split to help with producing the full color of the chord. Should there be more than 2 playing in this situation, the 2/3:1/3 ratio should be used.

I hope this helps.