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Hi I just recently saw the Canadian brass special that featured the NY Phil and Philidelphia brass quintets and so happened to notice Warren Deck's tuba. What model is he playing in that, I have never seen a horn that looked anything like it. Looked like it was four maybe five rotor and a detachable bell. Definitely a CC tuba and fairly large maybe a big 5/4 or 6/4. Does anyone know what horn that is?

BBruce107 wrote:Hi I just recently saw the Canadian brass special that featured the NY Phil and Philidelphia brass quintets and so happened to notice Warren Deck's tuba. What model is he playing in that, I have never seen a horn that looked anything like it. Looked like it was four maybe five rotor and a detachable bell. Definitely a CC tuba and fairly large maybe a big 5/4 or 6/4. Does anyone know what horn that is?

Funny you mention it, I've just been doing some research about it, in the thought of perhaps having a modern version of it built.

The horn that Warren is playing is Fred Geib's old Conn CC rotary tuba:
http://www.stephenshoop.com/Geib_Photo_Gallery.html" target="_blank

From talking with both Warren and it's current owner, it's a 20" bell, 38.5" tall, and a .7xx" bore (I forgot, and can't find the email this second). Conn only made a VERY few of these tubas... maybe 3 or 4? From what I understand, this tuba sounded great, but was a nightmare to play in tune. You'd never know from listening to Warren play it, but all around just not a great tuba.

Warren later had an Alexander valve section attached to the tuba, which I think helped and/or changed it somehow, but apparently not enough to cure it.

So, it's an extremely rare horn, and one that seems to have been a one-off that just didn't work out very well. If the best of the best tuba players can fight through it to make it work... just imagine how bad it'd be for the rest of us!

I played that horn when I was studying with Warren at Juilliard. It had the biggest, darkest tone I've ever heard from a tuba. Seismic would be an accurate descriptor I think. I don't know if Mike put the original valves back on the horn after he bought it, but I played it with the Alexander valve set and lead pipe that Warren had put on. It was an air-hog and the pitch and un-evenness of response made for an "interesting" challenge...like wrestling an alligator.

However, some of the very best recordings of Warren in NYP are on this tuba and you'd never know it. Mehta conducting Mahler 5 comes to mind immediately. There's also a recording of Canadian Brass and another group (maybe Boston guys?) and NYP of Gabrielli and Warren sounds like a ton of bricks, huge! Oh, and Tchaikovsky 4 paired with Francesca da Rimini...required listening.

It's the Indian, not the arrow. Nobody made that more clear than Warren!

Chris Olka wrote:I played that horn when I was studying with Warren at Juilliard. It had the biggest, darkest tone I've ever heard from a tuba. Seismic would be an accurate descriptor I think. I don't know if Mike put the original valves back on the horn after he bought it, but I played it with the Alexander valve set and lead pipe that Warren had put on. It was an air-hog and the pitch and un-evenness of response made for an "interesting" challenge...like wrestling an alligator.

However, some of the very best recordings of Warren in NYP are on this tuba and you'd never know it. Mehta conducting Mahler 5 comes to mind immediately. There's also a recording of Canadian Brass and another group (maybe Boston guys?) and NYP of Gabrielli and Warren sounds like a ton of bricks, huge! Oh, and Tchaikovsky 4 paired with Francesca da Rimini...required listening.

It's the Indian, not the arrow. Nobody made that more clear than Warren!

Great info, thanks!

Yes, it has the original valve section back on it. I think this tuba is museum-quality, in both the best and worst possible ways.

I would LOVE to see this tuba reimagined and rebuilt to modern standards. My dream of a modern American rotary CC tuba WILL be realized (by me) someday!

I would LOVE to see this tuba reimagined and rebuilt to modern standards. My dream of a modern American rotary CC tuba WILL be realized (by me) someday!

Other than the American made part, that would be the short lived Meinl Weston 2155R rotor horn. Yes, they used the 2155 model number for two different tubas. The Meinl Weston 2155R rotor tuba was inspired by Gerhard Meinl seeing the Geib Conn. Closest thing now is the MW 5450RA "Tuono".

Matt, you are the best. Still holding out to somehow find an old Conn, but it's great to know that about the Tuono. By specs, if nothing else , my rotary Willson seems to be a similar size..ish.

He played that horn at Ann Arbor in 1981 and I never heard such a sound before or since. I arrived late, and in the corridor I wondered what it was.

Edit: I need to clarify, I had no clue about the type of horn, but in the hall I wasn't sure if that was even just one person.

It was Warren, not the horn.
He sounded like that regardless of what he played IMO.
I will never, ever forget hearing him at Tanglewood in 1991 w the NYPO playing Sibelius 2.
Stupendous...
Incredible energy, core, FRONT of note. Wow.

There is a recording of orchestral excerpts made by Warren and the Houston Symphony brass section at the time he was a member of that ensemble. The instrument used at the time could have been the old Conn Geib model but as mentioned by one of the forum readers, it was Warren, not the tuba. Warren should be able to make this recording available - some of the finest playing one will ever hear!

Eugene

E. Green wrote:There is a recording of orchestral excerpts made by Warren and the Houston Symphony brass section at the time he was a member of that ensemble. The instrument used at the time could have been the old Conn Geib model but as mentioned by one of the forum readers, it was Warren, not the tuba.

Warren was playing his big Holton then. That was recorded at the TUBA Symposium in Denton, TX way back in 1980.

holy crap! Thanks for sharing that. I've never heard this stuff before. Amazing.
What an unbelievable amount of FRONT on the note. What a rock.
No question who that is.

Question for those in attendance: was it as great in person as it sounds?
This goes right up there w some of the best Chester stuff I ever heard.

had to listen to the Hallelujah from Mathis der Maler a couple extra times. Damn...
Spectacular playing.

Anyone know of any other amazing Warren archives?

jimgray wrote: Anyone know of any other amazing Warren archives?

Any tuba-rich repertoire with the NY Phil between 1979-2001. Lots of good stuff, and some of that sound actually sticks on CDs. Of course, nothing like being in the hall when he played though...