Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Hello All!
I'm new here and this is my first post. I inherited a Sousaphone and have been working on getting it playable. It had been stored for 20+ years. It's been washed, and I got the tuning slides sliding and the valves valving.
Now I need a leadpipe, but I'll need to identify the Sousaphone first.
The bell very faintly says "American Professional", but since the bottom valve caps don't match, I have no idea if it is the original bell. I see no other markings.
Any ideas?
I think I am posting some photos below:
Here's links to the photos in case my posts don't work:
https://flic.kr/p/H3BgZX" target="_blank
https://flic.kr/p/GJsbRf" target="_blank
I'm looking forward to learning my way around a new instrument, so help would be greatly appreciated.
Yer Luvin',
T-Roy
I'm new here and this is my first post. I inherited a Sousaphone and have been working on getting it playable. It had been stored for 20+ years. It's been washed, and I got the tuning slides sliding and the valves valving.
Now I need a leadpipe, but I'll need to identify the Sousaphone first.
The bell very faintly says "American Professional", but since the bottom valve caps don't match, I have no idea if it is the original bell. I see no other markings.
Any ideas?
I think I am posting some photos below:
Here's links to the photos in case my posts don't work:
https://flic.kr/p/H3BgZX" target="_blank
https://flic.kr/p/GJsbRf" target="_blank
I'm looking forward to learning my way around a new instrument, so help would be greatly appreciated.
Yer Luvin',
T-Roy
- windshieldbug
- Once got the "hand" as a cue
- Posts: 11512
- Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
- Location: 8vb
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Name?
How about Susie McPhoneface...
Seriously, at least "American Professional" was a Lyon & Healey stencil.
Is there no number on any of the bell collar surfaces?
What about the valve casings for the body?
Sometimes a number or prefix will be a good clue.
How about Susie McPhoneface...
Seriously, at least "American Professional" was a Lyon & Healey stencil.
Is there no number on any of the bell collar surfaces?
What about the valve casings for the body?
Sometimes a number or prefix will be a good clue.
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
You know? I thought I'd gone over it with a fine-toothed comb while working on it for a few weeks, but there's a marking plain as day on the second valve casing: 4479. Huh.
That 9 might be an 8.
"Susie McPhoneface", huh? Mmmmm... Prolly not...
That 9 might be an 8.
"Susie McPhoneface", huh? Mmmmm... Prolly not...
- Donn
- 6 valves
- Posts: 5977
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Seattle, ☯
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
I think you will need to change settings on your image site, in order to "share" images. When that's working, the pop-up window will have a "bb code" option, and you can paste the IMG part of that here.T-Roy wrote: I think I am posting some photos below:
Good photo ...
No idea what it is.
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Thanks for the photo tips, Donn.
"No idea what it is." Heh. Yeah.
"No idea what it is." Heh. Yeah.
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Well that's a good tip! Thanks, Lost!
- roweenie
- pro musician
- Posts: 2165
- Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:17 am
- Location: Waiting on a vintage tow truck
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Some Holtons had this feature, but the ferrules and valve caps look like Buescher...lost wrote:Looks to be a male bell collar which is rare...so your bell must be original if it fits it?!
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day".
-
- bugler
- Posts: 237
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:34 am
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Measure the rod diameter on the socket braces. If they're a common fractional inch size, it's American. If they're a common metric dimension, it's Euro.
American axes usually have more than 4 digits in the s/n.
American axes usually have more than 4 digits in the s/n.
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
They appear to be common inches or fractions thereof. So probably American. Hurm.
- Donn
- 6 valves
- Posts: 5977
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Seattle, ☯
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
But by 1930, Lyon & Healy had sold its brass instrument factory. American Professional is a Lyon & Healy stencil, as already reported by windshieldbug, but that doesn't mean they made it. Did the tags get switched and Buescher is really the maker, not retailer?
Not that it really matters, am I right? The odds seem very poor to me that this line of inquiry would lead to a good fitting leadpipe. I mean, let's say we track it to Buescher, which I doubt ... it's still an unknown model, true? and it's not like you can write to the piano company and say "you bought Selmer, Selmer bought Buescher, so I guess you have a box of old Buescher leadpipes for a sousaphone they made for Lyon & Healy?"
All it needs is a normal leadpipe with a cylindrical tenon on one end that's the right diameter, right? Measure the socket carefully, what could go wrong? I'm guessing that the normal L shape will work fine, though that's worth looking at.
Not that it really matters, am I right? The odds seem very poor to me that this line of inquiry would lead to a good fitting leadpipe. I mean, let's say we track it to Buescher, which I doubt ... it's still an unknown model, true? and it's not like you can write to the piano company and say "you bought Selmer, Selmer bought Buescher, so I guess you have a box of old Buescher leadpipes for a sousaphone they made for Lyon & Healy?"
All it needs is a normal leadpipe with a cylindrical tenon on one end that's the right diameter, right? Measure the socket carefully, what could go wrong? I'm guessing that the normal L shape will work fine, though that's worth looking at.
- tubasaz
- bugler
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:20 am
- Location: Finland
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Your Suza looks basically very cool! Valves have some compression left? All slides move? Water key(s) all right?Donn wrote: .... All it needs is a normal leadpipe with a cylindrical tenon on one end that's the right diameter, right? Measure the socket carefully.....
Get some leadpipe and some mouthpiece and start playing. Would be very interesting to hear how it sounds.
(my suza from 1950´s looked quite samelike condition when I bought it and now I cannot stop playing it!)
Monzani BBb--Conn 20K--Benge 290--Soprano Sax
-
- 5 valves
- Posts: 1395
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:46 am
- Location: Berkeley, CA
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Wild thought: Could that horn be a Besson Sousaphone?
Ace
Ace
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Wow. You all are super helpful. I am loving this project!
I've been sharing it with my twitter followers at #TheSousaphoneProject (I'm @cheekmeattroy) if'n you wanna see, but the real action is right here on this TubeNet thread.
Still would love to get some history for this horn who is probably Cassandra (but I'm holding out until I hear her prognositcations), so:
And because I think I still ain't figgered how to embed pics:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByHM1F ... sp=sharing" target="_blank" target="_blank
Really, all. I appreciate your interest and assistance.
Yer Luvin',
T-Roy
I've been sharing it with my twitter followers at #TheSousaphoneProject (I'm @cheekmeattroy) if'n you wanna see, but the real action is right here on this TubeNet thread.
Donn wrote: .... All it needs is a normal leadpipe with a cylindrical tenon on one end that's the right diameter, right? Measure the socket carefully.....
Done. I've ordered up a mouthpipe and tuning bits (Conn a210 and a211) that very well might work with some spackle (kidding...kidding), and I'm hoping to make some sounds within a week.tubasaz wrote:Valves have some compression left? All slides move? Water key(s) all right?
Get some leadpipe and some mouthpiece and start playing. Would be very interesting to hear how it sounds.
Still would love to get some history for this horn who is probably Cassandra (but I'm holding out until I hear her prognositcations), so:
bloke wrote:How about a close-up of the SIDES of the valve caps and finger buttons? (so we can see the cross-hatch pattern)
And because I think I still ain't figgered how to embed pics:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByHM1F ... sp=sharing" target="_blank" target="_blank
Really, all. I appreciate your interest and assistance.
Yer Luvin',
T-Roy
- Donn
- 6 valves
- Posts: 5977
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Seattle, ☯
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Does the look hint at an era? Looks old to me, like '30s, but that's just based on practically nothing.
- tubasaz
- bugler
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:20 am
- Location: Finland
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Meanwhile T-Roy is getting the mouthpipe and -bits and -piece so can we try to speculate date of his Suza?
Here are images of valves of some old horns:
Just guessing but could T-Roys suza be from late 1920´s ? When looking his valve image it looks like older than these mine ?
Here are images of valves of some old horns:
Just guessing but could T-Roys suza be from late 1920´s ? When looking his valve image it looks like older than these mine ?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Monzani BBb--Conn 20K--Benge 290--Soprano Sax
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
It looks like mine is probably a little older than all but the bottom one judging from the wear, but it's been rode hard and put up wet, so...
- Donn
- 6 valves
- Posts: 5977
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Seattle, ☯
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Well, sorry! - help us out - where did you say something that could hint at a clue to the date of manufacture? The most I can see from you in black print is "nothing like Buescher" and "I believe it to be domestic." Maybe I have not captured the intent of your elusive utterance.bloke wrote:Sometimes, I think I must be posting in white text...
- Donn
- 6 valves
- Posts: 5977
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
- Location: Seattle, ☯
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
But it's 10 times as bizarre if it came from Conn, isn't it? I mean, why would they have done that, and evidently in very small production since no one's ever seen one, for a stencil?
On the other hand, there must have been at least a couple times in the history of musical instrument design, when inconsequential details were copied from someone else rather than designed from scratch.
To me it screams "check valve alignment!" but maybe that's just the picture. For those who hear "Conn!", is it saying anything about the time frame?
On the other hand, there must have been at least a couple times in the history of musical instrument design, when inconsequential details were copied from someone else rather than designed from scratch.
To me it screams "check valve alignment!" but maybe that's just the picture. For those who hear "Conn!", is it saying anything about the time frame?
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
Ha! It is not just the picture! She's got issues! I had to use considerable force to get the stem(?) Of the third valve straight enough to allow full motion.Donn wrote:To me it screams "check valve alignment!" but maybe that's just the picture. For those who hear "Conn!", is it saying anything about the time frame?
My measurements indicated that the Conn mouthpipe was the closest to a perfect fit. She might have some Conn genes.
- T-Roy
- lurker
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm
- Location: Chicago
Re: Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It
The top and bottom caps are interchangeable and appear to be the exact same part.bloke wrote:It would be interesting to hear whether those TOP caps can be screwed on to the BOTTOM threads (i.e. same casing threads: top and bottom)
I neither have nor desire access to schools.bloke wrote:It would also be interesting to hear whether some nearby school's old run-of-the-mill Elkhart, Indiana Conn 36K fiberglass or 14K brass sousaphone's caps fit your instrument.
I don't, but I will try to borrow some.bloke wrote:Do you own some inexpensive calipers whereby the 1-2-3 slide bore can be measured?