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That would be an amazing tuba.

I like the 4v's better, BUT you CAN NOT go wrong on a horn like this! With all the work done/will be done to it, at that price, a VERY good deal!

PS. Actually, sell the Thor and keep the vintage 186... nice match with the Symphonie F...

You had me up until the part about the satin silver finish. Personally, I nearly always dislike satin silver finishes (no solid reason, I just don't like the look at all... sort of like black shoes and jeans, I just personally don't like it...).

But beyond my own preferences, I think that refinishing this tuba would completely strip it of its character. It would go from looking like a really old and cool tuba to just another new silver tuba. Yes, you rarely see silver Miraphones... but there are plenty of silver Chinese copies. Yes, shiny silver is different than satin silver... but to me, I think it'd make it *look* much less cool and much more mainstream. And that's Goal #1 right, to *look* cool?

Well clearly, yours is the only opinion that matters. I have no doubt that it would look pretty, but I think I'm just in the minority that doesn't really like or want that look. Even the Oberloh project pictures of satin finished 6/4 tubas. Great work done at a high level... just not what I like.

I'm not sure I'd go quite so far to say that it would make me NOT want to buy it... but it wouldn't make me want to buy it any more. And to me, I'd rather pay less $ and NOT have it blinged-out. Again, that's just me.

bort wrote:Well clearly, yours is the only opinion that matters.

No, mine matters too. Along with possibly as many as three others, so far.

Personally I really love the look of my '69 185 with the loved so much no original lacquer left look. I think you would really have a special 186 if it was rebuilt -but left with the vintage look of "originality". People in the vintage motorcycle and car markets these days really prize originality (and pay more for it). I would think that might apply to the vintage tuba market.

I do think the frosted silver would certainly give it that throwback look and I really like that look - BUT - it is a major pain to keep that looking good. As I get older I'm adopting the Bloke less upkeep work the better!

BTW, isn't this a MiraFone?

Michael Bush wrote:

bort wrote:Well clearly, yours is the only opinion that matters.

No, mine matters too. Along with possibly as many as three others, so far.

Oh... well, maybe I either misread or misunderstood, but I thought the idea was that Joe's going to do what Joe's going to do... and then maybe sell it. As opposed to deciding to sell it, then do what the buyer wants him to do.

Well the question you ask becomes a little moot when you add in that you might keep it for yourself. I mean from a pure business standpoint (and fwiw I'm not in the tuba biz and make no claims to know that market) you really narrow the # of buyers for this the more expensive the price point becomes as well as the limited market these days for a frosted silver horn. While I could afford that final price point I would much rather buy the horn you show when it is in excellent mechanical operating form without the extra cost new finish. I think your ROI is likely to be higher and quicker. But I'm sure you will find a buyer out there if you go that route.

And while I'm sure your bias against naturally aged finished horns is much more informed than mine I personally am more suspicious of the shiny refinished horns that you see on fleabay (not that I'm accusing you of doing anything less than excellent work).

bort wrote:

Michael Bush wrote:

bort wrote:Well clearly, yours is the only opinion that matters.

No, mine matters too. Along with possibly as many as three others, so far.

Oh... well, maybe I either misread or misunderstood, but I thought the idea was that Joe's going to do what Joe's going to do... and then maybe sell it. As opposed to deciding to sell it, then do what the buyer wants him to do.

That's cool. I should have found some way to make it clear that I meant that to be heard in the voice of a supersensitive undergraduate snowflake.

bort wrote:You had me up until the part about the satin silver finish.

This.

I like the look as is, doesn't try to hide its age but certainly doesn't look like its had a hard life.

If you are gonna keep it for yourself, fix it up however you want. But If you are thinking of selling it, you should do a good "economy overhaul" on it; not a "deluxe 'factory'" overhaul.

Those vintage Mirafones are pretty sweet tubas.

I'm the lucky owner of a Bloke-a-phonic Miraphone 184 CC. I went for the "ugly" but "solid" option. No dents. Reworked bell with a few minor scars on the garland. Smokingly clean and tight valve action. 5th valve cut to a flat whole step and routed in a one-off manner. Maybe a couple spots of decay on a few tubes. No lacquer fixes other than a bit of touch-up spray. Rescued from a middle school? (Can't remember the heritage.) This horn plays!

From what I've heard, satin finish hide a multitude of sins . . .

The most beautiful horn I've seen was the Bloke Buescher helicon in Satin with an extra valve. Holy balls, nice horn.

So this 186 that might become a project will probably turn out great with either satin finish or "as is" finish.

If I still lived in the region, I would probably take Bloke up on the internship. Learning to play a bit better in exchange for some land clearing sounds like a good deal. Learning to fix horns sounds like an even better deal, as the Mid-South maestro seems to have mastered the Midas Touch.

ps. Who wants to polish any kind of silver finish? Satin is the worst. How about silver with lacquer . . . the best of both worlds in the holy war.

bloke wrote:Silver doesn't stick on lacquer...

Does lacquer stick on silver?

I'm with the others that think that everything is great except the satin silver finish. For this type of tuba (German, rotary, "vintage"), my preferred finishes would be raw brass or original lacquer (worn/patchy/discolored all being ok with me).

I'd rather not see the instrument subjected to the "trauma" associated with prepping for new lacquer or bright silver plating. I like satin silver just fine, but I must admit that I just don't associate satin silver finish with this type of tuba...as mentioned above: German, rotary, vintage. When I think satin silver I see old Holtons, Conns (and "new" Conns for that matter), and Yorks...you know, the old American brands, usually with piston valves. I have seen exactly two silver Miraphones in person. Both were 186s, one satin and one bright silver. They were interesting because of how unusual it is to see that, but it is not a finish I would elect for myself if I had the choice and if I knew the instrument was originally lacquered.

Tom "I only care about the sound" B.

bloke wrote:(If THIS one is dropped on the floor, there's no great loss. )

Looks like you already dropped it on the "Y" key on your keyboard!

The last time I saw the Warsaw Philharmonic (many years ago) the tuba player had a silver plated, 60s vintage 186 CC. I had never seen a serial number so low on a tuba before. His wasn't satin but it might just as well have been since the horn had been rode hard and put away wet. I'm betting this was his touring horn (I saw them here in the States) and that horn had lots of work done on it. Even with all of that, the horn was an awesome player and I have never been a huge fan of 186s except in their consistent quality and versatility. Anyone who does their homework and learns what it means to have a 60s vintage 186 in their hands will gladly pay $9k for a fully restored example. As someone that always prizes the sound over the look, the satin wouldn't mean a thing. How that horn could play would be my entire focus. Good luck!

I've played this particular tuba when visiting Bloke. I'd say it's worth $9,000 dollars. I rank it in the top 5 best horns I've ever played. Those serious about playing should consider convincing Bloke to sell it to them- even if it costs a kidney!

The West Point Band had a bright silver 186 C when I arrived in 72'. It was the only C tuba the band owned the other horns being a set of silver front action Martin Mammoths(5) and a set of .750(yes, .750) bore silver Kings as well as the only lacquered horn the band owned, a Meinl Weston model 25(with the bigger bell) that our section leader played and got a great sound out of. I signed out the Miraphone for a concert so I had it for a couple of weeks and it was just an amazing instrument. The sound was just beautiful and effortless to make. They recorded the concert, they let me be section leader so I got all of the "one tuba" parts and I was amazed at the sound. It was glorious and Way audible, not the ten pounds of s@@t in a five pound sack that I hear so often out of those horns. I've never played another one that played like it .....and it's still there. Ed( I should've stolen it when I had the chance)

TheHatTuba wrote:

bort wrote:You had me up until the part about the satin silver finish.

This.

I like the look as is, doesn't try to hide its age but certainly doesn't look like its had a hard life.

+1

I had a satin silver horn once: a real pain to keep looking good.

I imagine the plating/finishing adds quite a bit to the cost. I'd prefer both original look and lower cost. (Not that I'm in the market.)